In our first segment, Pastor Mattthew, Pastor Rob Appold and Adam Vanderstelt chat about Communion in a bit of a deep dive. We do it every week at our church and we don’t always get to talk about what it’s all about.
Next, Adam and Matthew take a look at why we sing what we sing, looking at a song that we often use during communion at our contemporary service – O Come to the Altar.
In the final segment, we introduce a new recurring Bible study segment where we’re going to look at the Sermon on the Mount with just our Bibles and reflect on Jesus’ teaching.
If you have a suggestion for a topic or a question you’d like us to address, let us know! Reach out to us at media@stmatthewgr.com.
Transcript
welcome back to Everyday disciples, where we
Matthew Starner:strive to follow Jesus every day, wherever we are. I'm Pastor
Matthew Starner:Matthew Starner and I'm so glad you're joining us today. Every
Matthew Starner:week, we're seeing more and more people subscribing and tuning
Matthew Starner:in. And I just wanna let you know that we are so thankful for
Matthew Starner:you, our listeners. In our first segment today, I sit down with
Matthew Starner:Pastor Rob apple, and Adam Vander stellt, to talk about
Matthew Starner:communion in a bit of a deep dive. It's something that we do
Matthew Starner:at our church every week, but we don't always have time to talk
Matthew Starner:about what's happening in this meal that we share. So we'll dig
Matthew Starner:into that together. In our second segment, Adam and I take
Matthew Starner:a look at why we sing what we sing, and look at a song that we
Matthew Starner:often use during communion at our contemporary service. Oh,
Matthew Starner:come to the altar. And finally, we're starting a new recurring
Matthew Starner:Bible study segment, where we're going to look at the sermon on
Matthew Starner:the mount with just our Bibles and reflect on Jesus teaching no
Matthew Starner:commentaries or resources other than our Bibles in a way that
Matthew Starner:you might have a conversation with your family and friends
Matthew Starner:about God's word. We've got a lot of great stuff ahead. Let's
Matthew Starner:get going.
Matthew Starner:Well welcome, once again, I'm sitting here today with Pastor
Matthew Starner:Rob apples and Adam Vander stellt. And we're ready to do
Matthew Starner:another little deep dive here. And we thought, doing a deep
Matthew Starner:dive on the topic of communion. We've got another segment
Matthew Starner:talking about that a little later in the show. But I thought
Matthew Starner:it might be interesting to kind of dive into this practice that
Matthew Starner:at St. Matthew, it's something that we do every week. Some
Matthew Starner:churches do it. Occasionally. Some Some do it like every other
Matthew Starner:week, or just periodically throughout the year. But this
Matthew Starner:practice that we all, all Christians share, sharing
Matthew Starner:communion, but but we hold different a variety of beliefs
Matthew Starner:about what communion is all about what's happening, whether
Matthew Starner:it's something that we're doing, or something that God's doing.
Matthew Starner:And so I want to just kind of throw that out there, to the
Matthew Starner:three of us here to say sort of, you know, in, in kind of
Matthew Starner:everyday disciple language, how do you talk about what's going
Matthew Starner:on in communion?
Rob Appold:A lot has been written, I mean, you can get
Rob Appold:volumes of books, when basically all Jesus said is the words of
Rob Appold:institution, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, and then First
Rob Appold:Corinthians, other supporting information in First Corinthians
Rob Appold:10, and 11. But yeah, a lot has come up about communion.
Matthew Starner:We like to get divided about draw lines to
Matthew Starner:like, Okay, well, you believe this, and I believe this and,
Matthew Starner:you know, that communion alone, I think, divide some different
Matthew Starner:denominations and stuff and, you know, for for good or for ill, I
Matthew Starner:guess,
Rob Appold:yeah. And more for ILL than for for good. And I get
Rob Appold:distinctions. But to be honest with you, I think some, actually
Rob Appold:some burdens have been laid on people through it all too.
Matthew Starner:Sure. Yeah, there's a, you know, a variety
Matthew Starner:of opinions as far as like, who's doing what, in communion?
Matthew Starner:You know, this is we find ourselves here in Grand Rapids
Matthew Starner:in kind of the the reformed land. So there's a lot of lot of
Matthew Starner:the kind of idea that this is this is a act of remembrance,
Matthew Starner:that we're remembering what Jesus did, certainly important
Matthew Starner:aspect of it. But there's more to it for
Rob Appold:us. Right. And this would not be the lightning rod
Rob Appold:for the Lutheran and the reformed. I mean, one of the
Rob Appold:bigger dividing points between the two. Sure, I mean, it comes
Rob Appold:from a deeper spot, but this is the the point that Lutherans and
Rob Appold:reformed like to argue about sure for history and actually
Rob Appold:had wars.
Matthew Starner:Yeah, yeah, that's something we don't think
Matthew Starner:about if you want to get into you know, Christian history. You
Matthew Starner:know, there were there were actually wars fought over these
Matthew Starner:things back in the days of the Reformation. Thank God, we've
Matthew Starner:passed that right. Now. We just do it online. We just argue on
Matthew Starner:Facebook.
Adam VanderStelt:Well, growing up, when you say that I remember
Adam VanderStelt:actually, every every communion table that was in I grew up in a
Adam VanderStelt:Christian Reformed Church, and have served in Christian
Adam VanderStelt:Reformed churches and every one of the tables, communion tables
Adam VanderStelt:that they've used. Have those words, Do this in remembrance of
Adam VanderStelt:me on the front?
Rob Appold:And really, again, get behind all of that is, is
Rob Appold:this something? Are we emphasizing what God is doing?
Rob Appold:Are we emphasizing what we're doing for God? And is it a
Rob Appold:sacramental or a sacrificial part of the service? And so
Rob Appold:there's, there's reasons for it but sure, we want to keep them
Matthew Starner:healthy. Sure. And that can if that's our
Matthew Starner:primary mindset like it can become an obedience thing,
Matthew Starner:right? So I'm being obedient. I'm following that command,
Matthew Starner:right to remember. So So let me demonstrate my obedience here.
Matthew Starner:How would you say, Pastor Rob? The the Lutheran attitude if
Matthew Starner:it's not one of obedience, what would you call it? Yeah, well,
Matthew Starner:I've towards it.
Rob Appold:I again I think you know to get behind it is that
Rob Appold:Matthew Do this in remembrance of me. I don't know if it's an
Rob Appold:all the words of institution. I'm just thumbing through my
Rob Appold:Bible right now. I don't think it's in the other places of the
Rob Appold:words of institution, Matthew, you got your computer there, you
Rob Appold:can probably find it better. But okay, so do this in remembrance
Rob Appold:of me. Certainly, we are doing something we are breaking bread,
Rob Appold:we're eating bread and drinking wine. The again, what does the
Rob Appold:word remembrance mean? One part of it is cognitively remember.
Rob Appold:And that's kind of that whole, hey, this is an act of
Rob Appold:obedience, we're remembering the central act of Jesus, His
Rob Appold:substitutionary death on the cross is the resurrection from
Rob Appold:the dead. Fantastic. That is certainly part of it.
Rob Appold:Understanding that word of remembrance, it comes from the
Rob Appold:Hebrew. And if you look at, remember, it means that is a
Rob Appold:theologically packed word that that means a lot. God remembered
Rob Appold:his people, God remembered, Joseph, it means really to take
Rob Appold:a past event. So recall that past event, but apply the
Rob Appold:benefits of that past event to your situation today. So in
Rob Appold:communion, it's certainly looking back to the cross and
Rob Appold:the death of Jesus and the resurrection, but apply those
Rob Appold:into your life today. So for your life and the brokenness,
Rob Appold:the sinfulness, the sins of omission, the sins of
Rob Appold:commission, you know, you could go through the whole list, I
Rob Appold:mean, if you wanted to, but to say, You know what, there is
Rob Appold:forgiveness for me in that sin, and therefore, I will live as a
Rob Appold:regenerate. I desire by the spirits, leading and guiding to
Rob Appold:live as a regenerate child of God and not fall into the same
Rob Appold:pattern of sinfulness. This is the idea of remembrance in its
Rob Appold:fuller capability, and that God is giving me the exact power I
Rob Appold:need the very presence and the personhood of Jesus into my
Rob Appold:life.
Matthew Starner:That's great. Yeah, that that full aspect of
Matthew Starner:it's more than just a reenactment. Yes, yeah. That
Matthew Starner:Jesus is there with us. Just found those verses here real
Matthew Starner:quick. So Matthew and Mark both don't mention the remembrance
Matthew Starner:aspect Luke And then Paul in First Corinthians Okay, he says
Matthew Starner:it both of them highlight the do
Rob Appold:this, that's what I meant. Yeah.
Matthew Starner:But all four of them all four of those places
Matthew Starner:talk about it. This is an important aspect of Jesus
Matthew Starner:ministry and something that he does give to us to do it is
Matthew Starner:something for us to continue to do as we come together as
Matthew Starner:Christians maybe one of the other aspects that we like to
Matthew Starner:draw lines between like denominations is what actually
Matthew Starner:is happening in the Lord's Supper we as Lutherans you know
Matthew Starner:take very seriously Jesus words that this is my body this is my
Matthew Starner:blood for us you know is means is it's right this is body this
Matthew Starner:is odd. There are other other flavors of Christianity out
Matthew Starner:there that like to take it as it represents it's representative
Matthew Starner:of
Rob Appold:we know that would be the probably what Adam you
Rob Appold:grew up with. This symbolizes Jesus body. This symbolizes his
Rob Appold:blood. And again, this became I mean it, Lou Thursday. Again,
Rob Appold:this was a fight. These were fighting words, these were no we
Rob Appold:can't. And I mean, praise God. Luther was stubborn when it came
Rob Appold:to the Word of God. But, you know, Jesus could have used the
Rob Appold:word symbol if you meant symbol, but and I'm sure, Matthew, you
Rob Appold:know, the, the, the arguments Luther had, what's his lingually
Rob Appold:on the Lord's Supper?
Matthew Starner:Sure. Yeah, you know, this, this is my body. He
Matthew Starner:used that word for a reason. This is my blood. You know,
Matthew Starner:it's, I think one of the things I appreciate about Lutheran
Matthew Starner:theology is we we take God at His Word. You know, when when
Matthew Starner:God says something, we believe it without trying to explain it
Matthew Starner:away.
Rob Appold:Right, well, we save that, but there are a lot of
Rob Appold:volumes of a lot of ink on how exactly is this happening? And
Rob Appold:that's true. This is one thing I, you know, there is a mystery
Rob Appold:to this. I don't think all the I mean, I know there's, you
Rob Appold:probably have books on your shelf, trying to explain when
Rob Appold:does Jesus body join the bread and wine? I don't know. And I
Rob Appold:think in that bottom line, none of us know that and
Matthew Starner:and that's that's what I was was trying to
Matthew Starner:get at like, as we're comfortable with the mystery.
Matthew Starner:Okay, we're comfortable with with it not necessarily being
Matthew Starner:fully rational. You know, I know like for for those in the Calvin
Matthew Starner:tradition. You know, Calvin wanted everything to be rational
Matthew Starner:wanted to work it all out so that it made sense. Where
Matthew Starner:Lutheran Lutheran are very much okay with saying, we're only
Matthew Starner:going to go as far as what the Bible says, the Bible says this
Matthew Starner:is my body doesn't say how doesn't say when doesn't say,
Matthew Starner:You know what manner it becomes the body. So I love that you
Matthew Starner:Luther had that that phrase that it's, you know, the body in with
Matthew Starner:and under
Rob Appold:the brand. Did that come from Luther himself? Do you
Rob Appold:know? Oh, you
Matthew Starner:know, I? I guess I always assumed that it
Matthew Starner:did, because that's what I've always heard and confirmation
Matthew Starner:after research. Now. I guess I don't know if that actually
Matthew Starner:originated with him or if that came later on. But Lutherans I
Matthew Starner:guess I've always had that phrase, which describes
Matthew Starner:everything and nothing at the same time, right. It doesn't
Matthew Starner:doesn't explain how it works in with an under what does that
Matthew Starner:mean? But but it? That's what the Bible says that this is the
Matthew Starner:body this is the blood?
Rob Appold:Yeah, it was. I don't, again, I'd have to look
Rob Appold:back on but to try to. Because there was the obviously the
Rob Appold:other side of the world of Transubstantiation of the
Rob Appold:classical Roman Catholic theology. That Lutherans, we're
Rob Appold:trying to differentiate and be complete as much as possible to
Rob Appold:say, yes, the body of blood of Christ is in the bread and the
Rob Appold:wine. But it is not changed into so it's under the forms of bread
Rob Appold:and wine. In within? Well, in and width and then under. Yeah.
Rob Appold:So it gets into a whole lot of church history as well. Right?
Rob Appold:Yeah.
Matthew Starner:And you can you can certainly, I mean, we're,
Matthew Starner:this is a deep dive segment. But we're, we're barely putting our
Matthew Starner:toe in the water of how deep you can actually go if you want to
Matthew Starner:really dig into the depths of theology, which for most folks,
Matthew Starner:they're probably okay. Having a having a good grasp on, what
Matthew Starner:does it actually mean for me?
Rob Appold:And that means Jesus asked her, that's what I would.
Rob Appold:And maybe I'm too simple, but that Jesus is with me, he's for
Rob Appold:me, he has given Himself to me that I need that. I mean, I
Rob Appold:would be happy with people knowing and believing that
Rob Appold:without trying to explain all of these aspects of these things
Rob Appold:that are really a mystery. How does it really happen? We know
Rob Appold:we're going to trust God on that.
Matthew Starner:Yeah, I think if there's any takeaway, maybe
Matthew Starner:that's the the big one that be okay with embracing the mystery
Matthew Starner:and simply trust in the words that Jesus says that we hear
Matthew Starner:every here at St. Matthew, we hear every week when we do
Matthew Starner:communion that this is my body, this is my blood given and shed
Matthew Starner:for you for the forgiveness of your sins. Like, that's all we
Matthew Starner:need to get.
Rob Appold:Okay. Well, the the danger in having weekly
Rob Appold:communion is
Matthew Starner:that it becomes routine. Yeah. Just another
Matthew Starner:thing to check off on the list.
Adam VanderStelt:Well, I mean, for me, who growing up, I think
Adam VanderStelt:we had communion, probably every six to eight weeks is become
Adam VanderStelt:really formational for me. And maybe that's just because I'm
Adam VanderStelt:new to this tradition. But I think that your habits form who
Adam VanderStelt:you are. And so even, even if a habit isn't fully appreciated,
Adam VanderStelt:week to week, I think it's still important. And that it's it's
Adam VanderStelt:still formational as part of the growth process, and I've just
Adam VanderStelt:been really grateful for for that here. Another thing that
Adam VanderStelt:I've noticed is that it seems like a worship service on
Adam VanderStelt:Sunday. The direction is towards the table. And what I mean by
Adam VanderStelt:that is everything that comes before and everything that is
Adam VanderStelt:after communion, is pointing towards that moment. Where in
Adam VanderStelt:churches that I've served out in In the past, they've more
Adam VanderStelt:pointed towards the sermon. Or even in another church, it's
Adam VanderStelt:more pointed towards like an altar call, or the baptismal
Adam VanderStelt:font. And so it's a really compelling thing. When we we do
Adam VanderStelt:all of those things in the direction of our need. Do you
Adam VanderStelt:know I'm saying, so we're coming in our need to the table, and
Adam VanderStelt:that's what this the service on Sunday becomes.
Rob Appold:Thanks. That's, that's refreshing. And thanks
Rob Appold:for sharing that. Because Jesus did say do this. And, you know,
Rob Appold:with the aspect of continue to do this, he doesn't say how many
Rob Appold:times and how often on Sunday, so I take communion in both
Rob Appold:services. I don't know if you do. Yeah. But I think there's a
Rob Appold:I've heard this, and I can't verify it, that Martin Luther
Rob Appold:said, unless a Christian took communion, at least four times a
Rob Appold:year. He should question whether he's a Christian. Well, that at
Rob Appold:least became the maximum in some traditions and some efforts to
Rob Appold:how often do we do this? Well, four times is what Luther said,
Rob Appold:that's all you got to do it and it became Christmas, Easter and
Rob Appold:maybe Pentecost or something like that. But yes, the the
Rob Appold:thinking has been, this is a word and sacrament and we need
Rob Appold:both. For the renewal renewal of our faith. These are both means
Rob Appold:of grace that God uses to form us.
Matthew Starner:Yep, yeah. And in the church that I grew up at.
Matthew Starner:Communion was not an every week thing in every service, I think.
Matthew Starner:Because I remember lots of services without communion. I,
Matthew Starner:when I was a little older, it was I remember it being
Matthew Starner:communion was that it was every week, but at one one week, it
Matthew Starner:was the early service. The next it was the late service kind of
Matthew Starner:alternated that way. I don't remember as a kid, if that's how
Matthew Starner:it was. But yeah, it has definitely kind of ebbed and
Matthew Starner:flowed throughout time. As as more more of a regular practice
Matthew Starner:or more of a reserved practice. And,
Rob Appold:and there definitely was too much as a push back to
Rob Appold:the Catholic practice of daily. Sure. Communion and Protestants
Rob Appold:and Lutherans would fall under that under that umbrella would
Rob Appold:say, well, we're, we're not that. So. Right. Now. We're not
Rob Appold:going to do it too much. Right. And that that fear of, oh, if we
Rob Appold:do it too much, it will become meaningless. This is important.
Rob Appold:Well, you can look at that two ways to Adams married I'm sure
Rob Appold:his wife doesn't say you kiss me daily, and it is meaningless.
Rob Appold:Right? Are you? Yeah, you You're right. I did that.
Adam VanderStelt:Right. Right, just checking in still love you.
Rob Appold:And I do, I do pray, people do have the opportunity
Rob Appold:to reflect and prepare themselves spiritually. But I
Rob Appold:also know the reality of Sunday morning is pretty fast paced.
Rob Appold:And if you have children, it's it's not always that most holy
Rob Appold:of exterior moments, but good things are going on in the
Rob Appold:reception of communion,
Matthew Starner:right. And I think just to kind of, you know,
Matthew Starner:circle all the way back around, remembering that even even when
Matthew Starner:I haven't had time to properly prepare my heart, or when I'm,
Matthew Starner:you know, trying to drag the kids up to the front or
Matthew Starner:something and wrestle with all of that. It's not about what I'm
Matthew Starner:doing. Amen. But it's about what Jesus is doing in that moment.
Matthew Starner:And so we get to, we get to receive that, you know, whether
Matthew Starner:we've whether we've prepared fully or not, which I think is a
Matthew Starner:great thing. So thanks, guys. Appreciate this conversation and
Matthew Starner:look forward to the next time we get to do a deep
Rob Appold:dive God bless.
Matthew Starner:Welcome back, and we're sitting here with Adam
Matthew Starner:Vander stellt again to talk about why we sing what we sing.
Matthew Starner:And this week we thought we would look at a song that's been
Matthew Starner:around for a little while kind of reasonably newer song. I
Matthew Starner:guess six years old now looking at the
Adam VanderStelt:Yep. 2016
Matthew Starner:Oh, come to the altar. One that we sing at the
Matthew Starner:late service the contemporary service here. And Adam, I don't
Matthew Starner:know about you, but what did you What did you think when you
Matthew Starner:first heard this song?
Adam VanderStelt:Well, when I first heard this song, Pastor
Adam VanderStelt:Matt, I thought that it was an altar call song. Like a modern
Adam VanderStelt:Billy Graham. Yes, sort of end of the program. Song and that's
Adam VanderStelt:what I heard.
Matthew Starner:And I was I was in that same boat. I remember
Matthew Starner:hearing the song and and, like, you know, hearing it and not
Matthew Starner:paying attention to it the first time but like, like, I like
Matthew Starner:that. What is this that I'm hearing? And, you know,
Matthew Starner:recognizing the chorus that will come to the altar bit and like
Matthew Starner:you going oh, man, this is an altar call song to bandwidth
Matthew Starner:can't use this song because it's pretty good haha. And then I got
Matthew Starner:looking at it a little closer and it's like, you know what, I
Matthew Starner:think there's maybe more going on here than simply an altar
Matthew Starner:call song. And he kind of like dug into the lyrics a little bit
Matthew Starner:and said, You know, I think this is a communion song as much as
Matthew Starner:it is an altar call song. I don't think they wrote it as a
Matthew Starner:communion song. You know this so this this comes from elevation
Matthew Starner:worship Elevation Church, which is down in Atlanta, Georgia, big
Matthew Starner:church, and especially one nowadays that's real popular
Matthew Starner:online, they've got a great social media presence, you know,
Matthew Starner:kind of very dynamic presence online. And they crank out a lot
Matthew Starner:of great worship stuff,
Adam VanderStelt:huh? Yes. You know, they have been a
Adam VanderStelt:forerunner for for many years now.
Matthew Starner:Right. And they're not all that old as no
Matthew Starner:creation. I mean, they're, I forget that they started 15
Matthew Starner:years ago or so. They've come a long ways. They're, they're in a
Matthew Starner:similar vein, if you listen to Christian music, of like,
Matthew Starner:Hillsong, and vertical vertical, yeah, those sorts of places.
Matthew Starner:cranking out some really good, I think, really theologically rich
Matthew Starner:songs. Yeah, there's a lot here, which was something that, you
Matthew Starner:know, for a long time, contemporary Christian worship
Matthew Starner:music was really sort of derided for, because it was all that
Matthew Starner:fluffy stuff, you know, right. I remember people that call it
Matthew Starner:happy, clappy music, happy clapping. And, you know, it has
Matthew Starner:certainly grown and come into its own. So we have a song here,
Matthew Starner:looking at some of these lyrics. Maybe? You know, that first
Matthew Starner:verse, I think speaks to a lot of people. The lyrics there,
Matthew Starner:I'll just read them for us real quick. Are you hurting and
Matthew Starner:broken within? Who's Who does that not describe? Overwhelmed
Matthew Starner:by the weight of your sin? Jesus is calling. Have you come to the
Matthew Starner:end of yourself? Do you thirst for a drink from the Well, Jesus
Matthew Starner:is calling. So right away, you know, reminding us who we are,
Matthew Starner:you know, that we're broken, that we are imperfect, that we
Matthew Starner:are needy in the sense that there's something that that we
Matthew Starner:need inside of us that we can't provide for ourselves, that
Matthew Starner:comes from outside of us that comes from Jesus.
Adam VanderStelt:Yeah, this I mean, this is sort of our
Adam VanderStelt:default condition, this brokenness and sense of guilt.
Adam VanderStelt:And what is so wonderful about Sunday morning, is we get,
Adam VanderStelt:perhaps we get beat up all week long, we get to come together.
Adam VanderStelt:Jesus calls us to this place, and we can receive new life. In
Adam VanderStelt:our broken condition, whatever state we're in, Jesus still
Adam VanderStelt:calls.
Matthew Starner:Yeah. And so the then moves into the chorus
Matthew Starner:there of Oh, come to the altar. The Father's arms are open wide
Matthew Starner:Forgiveness was bought with the precious blood of Jesus Christ.
Matthew Starner:So that that reminder of what we really need, that we really need
Matthew Starner:forgiveness. And I love that. So like for a church that does an
Matthew Starner:altar call, where it's sort of that often at the end of the
Matthew Starner:services invitation to like, whether it's putting your hand
Matthew Starner:up or actually coming forward to the altar to kind of rededicate
Matthew Starner:yourself to receive something for a church like that, you
Matthew Starner:know, that's there reminding people that this is about Jesus,
Matthew Starner:there's forgiveness, the Father's arms are open wide. For
Matthew Starner:for a communion song, though, I think it's it's even more
Matthew Starner:powerful. Yeah, yeah. We know that that's what we receive in
Matthew Starner:communion is forgiveness of sins, strengthening of our faith
Matthew Starner:that was bought with the precious blood of Jesus Christ,
Matthew Starner:which is what we're receiving also, right in communion, we're
Matthew Starner:receiving his blood. And I love that line about the Father's
Matthew Starner:arms are open wide, that that no matter how broken and hurting,
Matthew Starner:we are, no matter how much you know, we've come to the end of
Matthew Starner:ourself. The Father's arms are open for us. There's grace for
Matthew Starner:us there. And I think that's huge. Yeah. And so it moves into
Matthew Starner:then the the second verse there, which is a very similar vein to
Matthew Starner:the first one, leave behind your regrets and mistakes. We've all
Matthew Starner:got those right. Come today, there's no reason to wait. Now
Matthew Starner:that I love that line. Because there's, there's a handful of
Matthew Starner:people that I've met in my life, that for one reason or another,
Matthew Starner:like don't take communion, often because of something that's
Matthew Starner:happened in their past that they no longer feel like they're
Matthew Starner:worthy to do that. They're still believers, they're still they're
Matthew Starner:still Christians. But for whatever reason, they're,
Matthew Starner:they're refraining from doing that. And I always want to say
Matthew Starner:like, why there's forgiveness here. There's grace here and no
Matthew Starner:one you're not excluded from that. There's no reason to wait.
Matthew Starner:Come now come to you. And I just want to say that line to those
Matthew Starner:folks. Bring your sorrows and trade them for joy. From the
Matthew Starner:ashes a new life is born, Jesus is calling and it's so it's that
Matthew Starner:again that great reminder of the new life we have that that
Matthew Starner:sustains us through communion that we received there. And it's
Matthew Starner:words like those that make me even say like, this is more
Matthew Starner:powerful as a communion song because because those things are
Matthew Starner:actually happening in communion versus an altar call where it's
Matthew Starner:it's simply a rededication for a lot of folks. That's what an
Matthew Starner:altar call is about committing your life to Christ again. And
Matthew Starner:there's, there can be an awful lot of emphasis put on what you
Matthew Starner:do in an altar call, you know, did you really dedicate your
Matthew Starner:heart fully in those sorts of things? Where I love about
Matthew Starner:communion is it's all about what Jesus is doing, and what he's
Matthew Starner:done for us. And we just simply come and receive. And that's,
Matthew Starner:that's why I think what makes that so powerful for me.
Adam VanderStelt:Yeah, I love the language of regeneration in
Matthew Starner:that Yes, yep.
Adam VanderStelt:That, from the ashes from from absolutely
Adam VanderStelt:nothing. Christ can bring new life. And he does that work of
Adam VanderStelt:regeneration of restoration
Matthew Starner:and makes me think of Ephesians two, you
Matthew Starner:know, you were you were dead in your sentence, right? You were
Matthew Starner:basically ash, you were basically dirt, and you've been
Matthew Starner:made alive. Now, Christ, Christ has made you alive, through
Matthew Starner:through faith in Him. And so you know, such a powerful image
Matthew Starner:there that's painted.
Adam VanderStelt:Yeah. Goes back to the chorus that we
Adam VanderStelt:already went through. And then the bridge, which is, oh, what a
Adam VanderStelt:savior, Isn't he wonderful? Sing, Hallelujah, Christ is
Adam VanderStelt:risen. Bow down before him for his Lord of all, sing
Adam VanderStelt:Hallelujah, Christ is risen. I just I think it's striking,
Adam VanderStelt:because again, it's talking about Christ being risen. And I
Adam VanderStelt:think it's important, especially when we look at the song. From a
Adam VanderStelt:communion standpoint, it is in Christ's resurrection That we
Adam VanderStelt:can receive new life. And so and so that's why we sing
Adam VanderStelt:hallelujah. So it's a really theologically important
Adam VanderStelt:statement there. I also, I noticed a posture change. And I
Adam VanderStelt:know that's such a, like a worship, leader thing to say.
Adam VanderStelt:But this, the language changes from calm, which is a walking to
Adam VanderStelt:a bowing before him. So the posture has changed from
Adam VanderStelt:receiving God's gifts to adoring God for who he is. And I think
Adam VanderStelt:that that heart change happens, and I think I think it happens
Adam VanderStelt:in an important way in communion.
Matthew Starner:Sure, absolutely. And I really love
Matthew Starner:that like a church like St. Matthew, where we're at, that
Matthew Starner:celebrates this every week, as you know, part of our worship,
Matthew Starner:it's a routine that we have in there. And of course, you know,
Matthew Starner:it's it's easy for some folks to say, well, then it just becomes
Matthew Starner:kind of mundane. But we are shaped by those things that we
Matthew Starner:do regularly. You know, like at St. Matthew, and in both worship
Matthew Starner:styles services, we recite the Lord's prayer together, we
Matthew Starner:recite the Creed together. And as we do that, those are
Matthew Starner:formative things for us. They shape us, they form us, they
Matthew Starner:teach us about who we are and who's we are. And as we come
Matthew Starner:forward for communion, of course, you can go through that
Matthew Starner:with a, you know, a heart and a mind that's not set on what's
Matthew Starner:happening that's, you know, thinking about lunch, or
Matthew Starner:whatever's next or those sorts of things, but to do it, mindful
Matthew Starner:of what's happening. I think it's hard for it to not shape
Matthew Starner:that within you that this is a this is an act of receiving an
Matthew Starner:act of what does it submission to God that we are we are
Matthew Starner:receiving from him and acknowledging that we need
Matthew Starner:something from him that we can't do ourselves. We need that
Matthew Starner:forgiveness, we need that that strengthening of our faith. It
Matthew Starner:reminds us that we're creatures that we're not creators. Right,
Adam VanderStelt:right. Yeah. And that's why it's important
Adam VanderStelt:that it says For he is Lord of all right, right? That that is
Adam VanderStelt:the surrendering of our own power and giving it to our Lord
Adam VanderStelt:and Savior.
Matthew Starner:And then, you know, one of the things I like
Matthew Starner:about this song too, is it has a little bit of a different
Matthew Starner:structure. Okay, then then a lot of typical worship songs, in
Matthew Starner:that it ends with like, kind of a half a verse on the lyrics
Matthew Starner:that I'm looking at here. Verse three, even though it's really
Matthew Starner:just two lines. And it ends with a bit of a different tone from
Matthew Starner:the other verses that we've looked at. Barrier cross as you
Matthew Starner:wait for the crown. Tell the world of the treasure you found.
Matthew Starner:Mm hmm. And Adam, you were saying that you know that those
Matthew Starner:words really spoke to you? Yeah, they
Adam VanderStelt:do. because, again, I think it's another
Adam VanderStelt:posture change, and it goes from receive. So we went from
Adam VanderStelt:receiving a gift, buying to God an adoration to now we have a
Adam VanderStelt:task at hand. Because of the new libraries we've received, we
Adam VanderStelt:trust in God. That's what baring your cross means we trust in God
Adam VanderStelt:through the troubles in the trials of our life. And we share
Adam VanderStelt:our new life with other people. We share what we have found in
Adam VanderStelt:Christ with other people. There's an interesting thing
Adam VanderStelt:that happens in this as well. And you know, this as a, as a
Adam VanderStelt:music person, there's a chord in here that's outside of the key,
Adam VanderStelt:so that usually in a key in music, there's a set of chords
Adam VanderStelt:that sounds really good together. This is the one
Adam VanderStelt:instance in the song where it goes out of the key for a
Adam VanderStelt:second. And I think it's, I hope it's significant. I think it's
Adam VanderStelt:significant to me, because it's saying that there's something
Adam VanderStelt:new that must be done, now that we've taken now that we've
Adam VanderStelt:received this gift of new life.
Matthew Starner:Yeah, and it's one of those, that's one of
Matthew Starner:those things that I don't know that non musicians necessarily
Matthew Starner:realize the significance of that, that, Oh,
Adam VanderStelt:it's a total music born there.
Matthew Starner:But but I'm sure as you're singing in
Matthew Starner:church, and you kind of go, oh, that, that sounded different.
Matthew Starner:You know, and maybe inside you feel a little bit of it is
Matthew Starner:almost a little bit like discomfort, right? Because
Matthew Starner:because we're coming to the end of the song, usually, musically,
Matthew Starner:you're starting to leap to lead toward a landing in line in what
Matthew Starner:you kind of consider home within the kingdom. And it's, it
Matthew Starner:suddenly steps outside of home permitted, it's a comfortable
Matthew Starner:space, and it's like, Ooh, this is this is pushing us somewhere.
Matthew Starner:There's movement going on. And yeah, this song does take us on
Matthew Starner:a journey, you know, as you as you really look at those lyrics.
Matthew Starner:So I hope it's one that as we sing it in church, which it
Matthew Starner:comes up occasionally, you know, if this is one that we sing all
Matthew Starner:the time, but certainly one that is not unfamiliar to us. And I
Matthew Starner:hope it's one that you listen to maybe sing these words a little
Matthew Starner:bit more thoughtfully, as we do this and recognize as you come
Matthew Starner:to the altar, what it is that you're receiving there from
Matthew Starner:Jesus. So thanks, Adam. Thank you Matt with us and look
Matthew Starner:forward to the next time we get to talk about some some things
Matthew Starner:that we sing.
Matthew Starner:Alright, welcome back again, joined once again by Pastor Rob
Matthew Starner:appaled. And Adam Vander stout here, as we we want to start a
Matthew Starner:new kind of recurring series here, doing just a little bit of
Matthew Starner:a simple Bible study, we're sort of calling this like, Bibles
Matthew Starner:only Bible study. So not necessarily the deep dive kind
Matthew Starner:of stuff that you just got in the first segment, but maybe a
Matthew Starner:little more of that everyday discipleship. Reading the Bible,
Matthew Starner:we're going to read through the sermon amount on the Mount, we
Matthew Starner:thought that'd be a great spot to start teachings of Jesus has
Matthew Starner:his biggest recorded teaching that we have, and reading
Matthew Starner:through it kind of without, like all the commentaries without all
Matthew Starner:the resources and stuff, and just sort of reflecting on the
Matthew Starner:Word of God. And so I want to really encourage you, if you're
Matthew Starner:able to, as you're listening along, to open up your Bible
Matthew Starner:with us, if you're listening to us in the car, or you're on the
Matthew Starner:treadmill or something and can't do that, then certainly listen,
Matthew Starner:lean in listening to what we're saying here. But let's start by
Matthew Starner:reading reading the Sermon on the Mount, chunk by chunk. So
Matthew Starner:we're just gonna look today at the Beatitudes, the first part
Matthew Starner:of Matthew chapter five. And I'll go ahead and read that for
Matthew Starner:us here for the first little bit here. So I'm just going to read
Matthew Starner:through verse 12. And then we're going to just kind of kind of
Matthew Starner:reflect back on what we've heard, and maybe unpack a little
Matthew Starner:bit of it. But it begins at verse one, seeing the crowds. He
Matthew Starner:Jesus went up on the mountain. And when he sat down, his
Matthew Starner:disciples came to him and he opened his mouth and taught them
Matthew Starner:saying, bless it are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the
Matthew Starner:kingdom of heaven. Bless it are those who mourn, for they shall
Matthew Starner:be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the
Matthew Starner:earth. Bless it are the those who hunger and thirst for
Matthew Starner:righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. Blessed are the
Matthew Starner:merciful, for they shall receive mercy. Blessed are the poor in
Matthew Starner:spirit, for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for
Matthew Starner:they shall be called sons of God. Blessed are those who are
Matthew Starner:persecuted for righteousness sake, for theirs is the kingdom
Matthew Starner:of heaven. Bless that are you when others revile you and
Matthew Starner:persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you
Matthew Starner:falsely on my account? Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is
Matthew Starner:great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were
Matthew Starner:before you. So we'll end there. The end of verse 12. They're so
Matthew Starner:familiar passage of Scripture, maybe for many folks, maybe what
Matthew Starner:kind of stood out to you guys as we were listening to that again.
Rob Appold:You know, one of the things that made out even before
Rob Appold:the the words, I kind of wondered, was this an impromptu
Rob Appold:idea? Or was this a planned? And I'm watching the chosen so Oh,
Rob Appold:sure. And there it was. It chose Jesus kind of preparing a
Rob Appold:sermon. And I guess I never thought of it that way. But
Rob Appold:maybe he did plan this out and because I advised took it was a
Rob Appold:here's a bunch of people.
Matthew Starner:Let's tell him all the things because because,
Matthew Starner:you know, the Sermon on the Mount covers, yes.
Rob Appold:A lot of Yeah, it's three chapters, really the whole
Rob Appold:thing.
Matthew Starner:And so many different topics that are
Matthew Starner:included in there. That but yeah, you know, I I've been
Matthew Starner:watching the chosen to, and really appreciate the, the
Matthew Starner:humanity they bring to these familiar stories and have not
Matthew Starner:gotten to that part yet of the Beatitudes. But yeah, you know,
Matthew Starner:I don't think it's, it's unreasonable to think of Jesus
Matthew Starner:preparing a sermon. That's certainly a more human aspect to
Matthew Starner:Jesus than maybe we we often think
Adam VanderStelt:I, what stuck out to me, and it's never stuck
Adam VanderStelt:out to me before. So I'm having these thoughts for the first
Adam VanderStelt:time. It's the first three words, seeing the crowds. And
Adam VanderStelt:the reason why it sticks out to me is it goes on to say, the
Adam VanderStelt:poor in spirit, those who mourn, bless it are those who are meek,
Adam VanderStelt:and who are hungry. For those who are persecuted. Those aren't
Adam VanderStelt:like good things. And I think when he says seeing the crowds,
Adam VanderStelt:Jesus is speaking to the human experience that he sees in front
Adam VanderStelt:of them. And, and then he offers a promise to each of those
Adam VanderStelt:people he sees in front of them. So it's very much like a
Adam VanderStelt:speaking to the people where they're at is Christ meeting as
Adam VanderStelt:a couple? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so yeah, I you know, you
Adam VanderStelt:read this sometimes, and you go, bless it are the poor in spirit
Adam VanderStelt:for theirs the kingdom of heaven, like so? Does that mean,
Adam VanderStelt:I got to be poor in spirit? I mean, that doesn't sound good to
Adam VanderStelt:me. I'm just curious what you guys.
Rob Appold:Yeah, I've always taken that to mean, when you
Rob Appold:know, you're empty when you don't have Yeah, the you're not
Rob Appold:the paragon of affection. You're, if everybody knew what
Rob Appold:really rattled around in my heart, it would not be a good
Rob Appold:thing. Yeah. And Jesus is saying, bless it are those who
Rob Appold:are empty,
Matthew Starner:for theirs is the kingdom of heaven when you
Matthew Starner:and who and you know, can't deal with it on your own. Right, and
Matthew Starner:who know that they're empty. Because we're we all are
Matthew Starner:spiritually poor, right? I mean, none of us are good enough on
Matthew Starner:our own in the eyes of God. But some of us are blind to that.
Matthew Starner:And some of us are much more aware of that tuned into that.
Matthew Starner:And, man, it's when we see that in ourselves that we recognize
Matthew Starner:our need for God.
Rob Appold:Right. And we don't have to hide behind the, as some
Rob Appold:people say, the PhD, the pride, the phoniness, the hypocrisy, or
Rob Appold:the despair of Well, I'm not what I'm supposed to be a better
Rob Appold:hide it or Sure, pretended to deny that it's real, or any of
Rob Appold:that stuff. It's, oh, I'm, I'm a sinner, I need help.
Adam VanderStelt:It's a totally different message to in the
Adam VanderStelt:context of the time, right? Because these, this, this crowd
Adam VanderStelt:is probably used to a message that says, you're poor in
Adam VanderStelt:spirit, get your act together, like start following the rules.
Adam VanderStelt:And Jesus says, yours is the kingdom of heaven. What a
Adam VanderStelt:subversion of like the cultural expectation,
Rob Appold:right? And certainly the fair sake, model that was
Rob Appold:that those they work in, they weren't looked up to. They were
Rob Appold:seen as people who were agile.
Matthew Starner:And just generally, those who were
Matthew Starner:blessed in life, we're seem to be they must be spiritually
Matthew Starner:better than the rest of us, because God has blessed them.
Matthew Starner:Right? They've got that good stuff.
Rob Appold:I think in Is it the Luke? Parallel? I mean, it's not
Rob Appold:exactly but maybe Jesus preached another sermon. It is just
Rob Appold:recorded, Blessed are the poor.
Matthew Starner:Yeah. And it's, it's kind of funny as you just
Matthew Starner:kind of scan through the list, especially in the way my Bible
Matthew Starner:and the ESB, it's it is, as a list, you know, it's not just a
Matthew Starner:paragraph. But as you kind of look through some of them,
Matthew Starner:really, really do feel like that whole upside down Kingdom thing.
Matthew Starner:So you know, pouring spirit, they get the kingdom of heaven,
Matthew Starner:you skip down a couple to meek, they get the whole earth and
Matthew Starner:then there's other ones that just like they make sense. So
Matthew Starner:those who mourn, are going to be comforted. Those who hunger and
Matthew Starner:thirst for righteousness, they're going to get it. Those
Matthew Starner:who are merciful are going to be shown mercy. And so some of
Matthew Starner:those you know, really seem like they just logically flow and
Matthew Starner:other ones like that that whole Meek inheriting the earth just
Matthew Starner:It feels like that whole backwards upside down way of the
Matthew Starner:kingdom. And so you kind of wonder, like, you know, when
Matthew Starner:Jesus is preparing this, is there a pattern he's setting up?
Matthew Starner:In those? I mean, I don't necessarily see a pattern right
Matthew Starner:away looking at it. Because the first one's kind of upside down.
Matthew Starner:The second one makes sense. The third one's upside down. The
Matthew Starner:fourth, the fifth to six, they all start to almost
Rob Appold:like Proverbs in, in that sense? Yeah. Just being
Rob Appold:hatest wisdom state. Yes. And, yeah,
Adam VanderStelt:there's one here that says, Blessed are the
Adam VanderStelt:pure in heart for they shall see God. I'm just reminded of one of
Adam VanderStelt:the members of church I served that who was a person who had a
Adam VanderStelt:Down syndrome, but when they would worship, they would open
Adam VanderStelt:their hands up to the sky and look at the heavens the whole
Adam VanderStelt:time. And I think that just speaks to, I think that divers
Rob Appold:down syndrome.
Adam VanderStelt:Yeah, yeah, they would just have his arms
Adam VanderStelt:open, and his eyes towards the
Rob Appold:eyes get convicted by
Adam VanderStelt:Why can't I worship? Like, can I be that
Adam VanderStelt:pure and
Rob Appold:exalt? That's exactly what I can't believe
Rob Appold:there's that pure of people or somebody who's just innocent,
Rob Appold:you know? And I know, yeah, I'm not. And it's like, thank the
Rob Appold:Lord that, you know, a child or disabled person, or just some, a
Rob Appold:naive person. God bless him. And God helped me.
Adam VanderStelt:The other one that's sticking out. Or the
Adam VanderStelt:other word that sticks out to me is in verse 11, when Blessed are
Adam VanderStelt:you when not if so blessed are you when others revile you and
Adam VanderStelt:persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you
Adam VanderStelt:falsely on my account? It's a given. It's coming. Like if you
Adam VanderStelt:put your faith and it's gonna be strange and weird for the people
Adam VanderStelt:around you in your you're gonna, you're gonna hear about it.
Rob Appold:Yeah. I appreciate the because of me, not because
Rob Appold:I'm a jerk, or because I'm a bad person, but it's carrying the
Rob Appold:cross
Matthew Starner:certainly begins to set up. You know,
Matthew Starner:what's going to come later in the Sermon on the Mount? That
Matthew Starner:it's a it's not a straight forward path following Jesus,
Matthew Starner:you know, because there's, there's some of that some of the
Matthew Starner:stuff that that's gonna make sense. You know, morning
Matthew Starner:mourners will be comforted. There's other parts that aren't
Matthew Starner:necessarily going to make sense to us. The meek inheriting the
Matthew Starner:earth aspect or the the poor in spirit receiving the kingdom of
Matthew Starner:heaven. That it's, it is a what there's an element of trust here
Matthew Starner:to trusting that what when Jesus says these things, that these
Matthew Starner:are all true, even though it doesn't always make sense to me,
Matthew Starner:when I first hear this. And there's a lot of then what's
Matthew Starner:going to come after this. Things That Jesus is going to say that
Matthew Starner:is that are very much true, that are going to be convicting that
Matthew Starner:are going to be challenging. Things that are maybe going to
Matthew Starner:sound different to our ears, especially our ears today.
Matthew Starner:versus what the world around us says, and we have to trust that
Matthew Starner:Jesus tells us the truth.
Rob Appold:Yeah, actually, that Jogja a message you gave on the
Rob Appold:conclusion of the be out, or though sermon on the mount the
Rob Appold:wise and the foolish builder. And I remember it because it was
Rob Appold:just one of those little words, you said that stuck in my mind.
Rob Appold:What is wisdom is hearing Jesus words and putting them into
Rob Appold:practice? That's wisdom. Yep. And that would be exactly what
Rob Appold:the Beatitudes are saying. Here this, do it.
Matthew Starner:And really all of the sermon on the mount as
Matthew Starner:well, yes, hear, hear this and do it. And, you know, for a
Matthew Starner:great many of these followers, these crowds were there. That's
Matthew Starner:a hard thing for them to do. So I think that might be a good,
Matthew Starner:good place to stop this one here. And just
Rob Appold:on that, not just hard. It's impossible without
Rob Appold:God. Right? Yeah. And that's where faith obviously comes in.
Matthew Starner:No, no, no, that's that's a great thing to
Matthew Starner:add on there that really all of these things only make sense
Matthew Starner:with God. Yep. And with Jesus, men are only possible with him.
Matthew Starner:So great. Thanks for Thanks, guys for being a part of this
Matthew Starner:conversation here and look forward to as we go through
Matthew Starner:this, this series here, talking about other parts of the Sermon
Matthew Starner:on the Mount. Thanks for listening in today on all these
Matthew Starner:great conversations. We'd love to hear from you as we continue
Matthew Starner:this journey together. If you could rate and review us on
Matthew Starner:whatever platform you're listening to us on that would
Matthew Starner:help out and help others find us. And if there's a topic you'd
Matthew Starner:like us to talk about, let us know. You can email us at Media
Matthew Starner:at St. Matthew gr.com. Thanks for listening and keep following
Matthew Starner:Jesus together as we become everyday disciples.