It’s the last episode of Season 2! Thanks for being with us through these seasons! We’re working on plans for the summer and the fall, so watch for more updates about that down the road.

In today’s episode, we talk with Aidan and Matthew about how to listen when you pray. Most of the time, we probably think of prayer as one-way communication but God invites us into a conversation with Him in prayer. We’ll explore some ways to do that when we pray.

Then in part two, we talk with Matthew, Rob, and Adam in our walk through the Sermon on the Mount as we look at the Lord’s Prayer and how Jesus instructed His followers to pray.

If you have questions or something you’d like to hear us talk about, let us know with an email to media@stmatthewgr.com.

Transcript
Matthew Starner:

welcome back to Everyday disciples, the show

Matthew Starner:

where we strive to follow Jesus wherever we are. I'm Pastor

Matthew Starner:

Matthew, and thanks for joining us today on this last episode of

Matthew Starner:

season two. It's been a great journey this season. And I hope

Matthew Starner:

that you've been blessed and stretched by the topics we've

Matthew Starner:

talked about. In today's episode, we talked with Aidan

Matthew Starner:

hunt about prayer, and specifically about listening to

Matthew Starner:

God in our prayers. It's easy to think of prayer as just a one

Matthew Starner:

way communication but we need to listen to then in part two, we

Matthew Starner:

continue our journey through the Sermon on the Mount. And

Matthew Starner:

appropriately, we hear Jesus teaching on prayer in the Lord's

Matthew Starner:

Prayer. There's lots of great stuff ahead. So let's go.

Matthew Starner:

Well, I'm joined here today with Aiden hunt. And, once again,

Matthew Starner:

pulling Aiden in for a conversation here on some

Matthew Starner:

spiritual practice stuff. And in our other segment, today, we're

Matthew Starner:

talking about the Lord's Prayer in the Sermon on the Mount, we

Matthew Starner:

thought it'd be good to talk about prayer once again, because

Matthew Starner:

you know, it's never talked about that enough. But we wanted

Matthew Starner:

to come at it from a different angle than just talking about

Matthew Starner:

prayer in general, we wanted to talk about listening in prayer.

Matthew Starner:

Adan when when somebody says prayer and listening and prayer,

Matthew Starner:

maybe what's one of the first thing that comes to mind for you

Matthew Starner:

with that?

Aidan Hunt:

Not enough of it? That's my as my as my we don't

Aidan Hunt:

we don't do enough of that. Yeah. Myself included. Yeah.

Aidan Hunt:

Because if we if we really believe that prayer for us, is a

Aidan Hunt:

conversation with God. And conversations that are one sided

Aidan Hunt:

never go as well, as we would like, more lectures. Exactly.

Aidan Hunt:

And for lecturing God, well, yes, he's listening. But we also

Aidan Hunt:

need to remember that he has things to say to us as well. And

Aidan Hunt:

part of prayer, being a conversation is that it is a two

Aidan Hunt:

way street, a two way conversation. So yes, God

Aidan Hunt:

listens to us intently. And he cares for every word we say. And

Aidan Hunt:

we should also be just as intent and listen and care for every

Aidan Hunt:

word. He says back to us as well.

Matthew Starner:

Yeah, it's when we talk about listening in

Matthew Starner:

prayer. For some folks that might, I don't know, conjure up

Matthew Starner:

like, Mystic ideas, sort of, you know, because we don't normally

Matthew Starner:

think of hearing from God. In that sense, we think of, I think

Matthew Starner:

for a lot of people, their prayers tend to be, maybe I'll

Matthew Starner:

just because talking about mine, tend to be a little more like,

Matthew Starner:

let me submit my wish list. My list of demands, maybe depending

Matthew Starner:

on what my attitude is at the moment, but my requests to God,

Matthew Starner:

and then I just sort of like mail it off. And thanks, God

Matthew Starner:

take care of that for me, which we don't often think about how

Matthew Starner:

we, like actually hear from God in prayer. So when we say

Matthew Starner:

listening in prayer, are we talking about a an audible

Matthew Starner:

thing? Or are we talking about something a little more mystic

Matthew Starner:

than that? What What how do you explain that when, like when

Matthew Starner:

you're talking to the youth

Aidan Hunt:

about it? I think so. The important thing about

Aidan Hunt:

listening prayer is that it also kind of like this part of prayer

Aidan Hunt:

also includes another spiritual practice, I think, and it's the

Aidan Hunt:

practice of silence and solitude. When you're in any

Aidan Hunt:

conversation, it whether it's with a friend, a spouse, you

Aidan Hunt:

know, parent, child, whatever, whoever you're talking to, if

Aidan Hunt:

you're in a confined, or at least allowed space, say you're

Aidan Hunt:

somewhere where there's just a lot of distraction around a

Aidan Hunt:

coffee shop or a coffee shop. If you're at home and the TV's on

Aidan Hunt:

full blast, you're making dinner and somebody uses the blender,

Aidan Hunt:

you don't know. But if there's other things going on around

Aidan Hunt:

you, it's hard to listen intently to the person that

Aidan Hunt:

you're talking to. The practice of silence and solitude is

Aidan Hunt:

quieting your surroundings, quieting your own body kind of

Aidan Hunt:

clearing your mind, which sounds kind of like, you know Fung Shui

Aidan Hunt:

away and mystical lecture, Matthew. But I said there's some

Aidan Hunt:

truth to that. Oh, absolutely.

Matthew Starner:

I mean, this is a little bit of an aside, but

Matthew Starner:

like when I get get stressed out, or I feel like my day has

Matthew Starner:

just been frazzled, I need to go home and straighten up the

Matthew Starner:

house. Yes, it doesn't matter if the house isn't really all that

Matthew Starner:

dirty or messed up. Like I need to put a few things back to

Matthew Starner:

where they go, I need to you know, fold the towels and put

Matthew Starner:

them away like, Okay, I feel a little bit more at peace now in

Matthew Starner:

my world is in order.

Aidan Hunt:

And the typical thought when when you're

Aidan Hunt:

stressed when you're busy is I need some peace and quiet. And

Aidan Hunt:

peace and quiet now means something much different than it

Aidan Hunt:

did before the invention of the smartphone, and the complete

Aidan Hunt:

technological innovation. The first sign a word it is now of

Aidan Hunt:

our entire lives. Because we live in a world where we are

Aidan Hunt:

just constantly distracted and overstimulated and everything is

Aidan Hunt:

vying for our attention. So silence and solitude. Let's just

Aidan Hunt:

let's start with first and silence. just embracing the

Aidan Hunt:

quiet. It's something that while we are so bad at and it means

Aidan Hunt:

you know, if you want to seek silence, you have to turn off

Aidan Hunt:

the music. You have to turn off the television you have to turn

Aidan Hunt:

off, dare I say your cell phone? Oh, yeah. I mean it. Generations

Aidan Hunt:

the person saying Turn off your cell phone, that's crazy what's

Aidan Hunt:

happening. But honestly, it does matter. But if we if we truly

Aidan Hunt:

want to give our full undivided attention to hear God's voice,

Aidan Hunt:

either audibly or something in our heart, like the Holy

Aidan Hunt:

Spirit's working in us, we do need to embrace silence, we need

Aidan Hunt:

to remember what it feels like to be bored. I don't think

Aidan Hunt:anybody has been bored since:Aidan Hunt:

But yeah, probably even before that, too, because we always

Aidan Hunt:

have something that we can be doing, like, Oh, I'm bored. I

Aidan Hunt:

have a few seconds, let me pull up an Instagram. Let me see.

Aidan Hunt:

check Facebook link go on to ESPN, see what games are gonna

Aidan Hunt:

like, we always have so much stimulation on our hands,

Aidan Hunt:

literally on our hands, that we were missing out on time that we

Aidan Hunt:

can develop a deeper intimacy with God.

Matthew Starner:

And I think, you know, for like, for me that

Matthew Starner:

that thinking of, you know, just embracing silence. You know,

Matthew Starner:

maybe the picture that comes into my mind is like, going into

Matthew Starner:

a room shutting the door. And just like sitting there, you

Matthew Starner:

know, that's not necessarily going for a walk and just not

Matthew Starner:

taking your phone. Not putting in headphones and listening to

Matthew Starner:

music or a podcast or whatever. Although you could keep

Matthew Starner:

listening to this podcast, maybe that might be a good thing, but

Aidan Hunt:

put a plug in there. I don't think our world needs

Aidan Hunt:

more of our voices all the time.

Matthew Starner:

Yep, this is true. But you know, there are

Matthew Starner:

other ways to embrace that silence than to simply you know,

Matthew Starner:

just lock yourself in the bathroom for an hour away from

Matthew Starner:

the family.

Aidan Hunt:

Yeah, you can go full Pentecostal, do the prayer

Aidan Hunt:

closet thing like that works really well for some people. And

Aidan Hunt:

I've tried it a few times, and it works sometimes and not

Aidan Hunt:

others. But whatever works for you and your season of life. I

Aidan Hunt:

know. We were just talking with it with some of the high

Aidan Hunt:

schoolers last night like how can you embrace arrest, we're

Aidan Hunt:

talking about Sabbath. And one of our high schoolers said he

Aidan Hunt:

just loves driving in the car, either at night or on the way to

Aidan Hunt:

school in the morning, and not putting music on just like

Aidan Hunt:

silence in the car. And that can be really conducive to your

Aidan Hunt:

prayer life, you can just take that time, you know, you have a

Aidan Hunt:

set amount of time, because you know, your commute, you know

Aidan Hunt:

what your how long it takes for you to get to work or to the

Aidan Hunt:

grocery store, or to practice or whatever. And you know how much

Aidan Hunt:

time you have just set aside you have to drive and yes, pay

Aidan Hunt:

attention while you're driving. But you can really use that time

Aidan Hunt:

to talk to God, and to even listen to him. Just say God, I'm

Aidan Hunt:

not going to talk, I am going I do enough of that with you. I'm

Aidan Hunt:

going to listen, what is it that you have to say to me like, Come

Aidan Hunt:

Holy Spirit, I welcome your voice in your presence into

Aidan Hunt:

wherever I am. Please, if you have something to say to me, or

Aidan Hunt:

for someone else, or for myself, or whatever it is, you want to

Aidan Hunt:

say? I am listening speak, Lord, Your servant as listening is a

Aidan Hunt:

very simple and honest prayer.

Matthew Starner:

Yeah, so silence, I think, you know, the,

Matthew Starner:

the thing that goes with that is the solitude, you're getting

Matthew Starner:

away getting into that kind of quiet space and wherever that

Matthew Starner:

space might be. Which then opens us up to hear from God. Now,

Matthew Starner:

let's maybe think a little bit about how do we hear from God?

Matthew Starner:

What does that what does that sound like? How does? How does

Matthew Starner:

that work that we hear from God?

Aidan Hunt:

Yeah, I think you can see it or hear that all the

Aidan Hunt:

time where people have these very real, very tangible moments

Aidan Hunt:

in our life where

Matthew Starner:

that guy heard the voice of God. And have you

Matthew Starner:

ever had that? Have you ever had one of those moments where,

Aidan Hunt:

you know, I have not heard and that's the thing is

Aidan Hunt:

like, for some of us who haven't, that can make us feel

Aidan Hunt:

kind of bad. It can make us feel like we're inadequate, like, Oh,

Aidan Hunt:

God hasn't spoken to me. God hasn't said anything to me. And

Aidan Hunt:

I think that's one of the biggest obstacles for us in

Aidan Hunt:

listening prayer is that we feel like if we haven't heard the

Aidan Hunt:

voice of God at this point, it's probably never going to happen.

Aidan Hunt:

So he probably doesn't speak that way. But then we hear about

Aidan Hunt:

other times and other people where they have had that

Aidan Hunt:

experience. We're like, Ah, how, why isn't God not saying to me,

Aidan Hunt:

and I mean, get frustrated with God. And I think audibly hearing

Aidan Hunt:

God's voice is, I think it is a legitimate way that he can speak

Aidan Hunt:

to you but it's not going to always be the way that you

Aidan Hunt:

expect

Matthew Starner:

it to be right? It's not gonna be the big boom,

Matthew Starner:

and he doesn't promise to do that. No,

Aidan Hunt:

he doesn't know it's not, you're not gonna have that

Aidan Hunt:

moment where like, my first thought is in The Lion King when

Aidan Hunt:

Mufasa speaks loudly from the clouds to Simba, like that might

Aidan Hunt:

not happen for you, although God's voice sign like James Earl

Aidan Hunt:

Jones might, I would even go so

Matthew Starner:

far to say that that probably won't probably

Matthew Starner:

probably not happen. It's probably

Aidan Hunt:

it happened for Moses, and it happens for you

Aidan Hunt:

know, a few other people, but it's a very select few, it

Aidan Hunt:

doesn't mean you're less than them. No, just means God is

Aidan Hunt:

using you in a very different way than he used them. But and

Aidan Hunt:

like that is one way but it's not the only way I think of the

Aidan Hunt:

best way to hear to know somebody's voice is to spend

Aidan Hunt:

more time with them. And we have the voice of God with us and it

Aidan Hunt:

is His Word. We have the Bible,

Matthew Starner:

which is where he does promise to speak to and

Aidan Hunt:

he is absolutely

Matthew Starner:

and so yeah, we don't We read His word there we

Matthew Starner:

we hear his voice speaking to us. And I think like, as we read

Matthew Starner:

something, and then that, like, read it, and then reflect on it

Matthew Starner:

in that silence in that solitude, and you kind of Mull

Matthew Starner:

God's word around and chew on it and reflect on it. And I think

Matthew Starner:

from that, then we can also then hear God applying that in our

Matthew Starner:

life and speaking into the situations that we might be

Matthew Starner:

praying about. And hearing him speak in that sense. Yeah,

Aidan Hunt:

at any moment. If you spend a lot of time with

Aidan Hunt:

another person, you recognize their voice, it just becomes

Aidan Hunt:

part of your your relationship. So any moment that you're

Aidan Hunt:

spending time in the Word and you're listening, like

Aidan Hunt:

listening, knowing what God's voice sounds like, you're going

Aidan Hunt:

to be more attuned to it. If it does pop up in your heart or in

Aidan Hunt:

your ears, or when or however, it does come to you. And so,

Aidan Hunt:

yeah, I like you said, Matt, like, it's he hasn't promised to

Aidan Hunt:

speak to us audibly, but it can't happen.

Matthew Starner:

But he does promise to use his word yes. And

Matthew Starner:

he does promise to hear our prayer, and to respond to that

Matthew Starner:

prayer. But I appreciate it we had. So we're recording this

Matthew Starner:

when we had confirmation this this past Sunday, and the week

Matthew Starner:

before that our kids, we, in the Lutheran tradition, there's a

Matthew Starner:

kind of a long standing tradition of what's like a faith

Matthew Starner:

question and kind of a thing, and kids get to talk about their

Matthew Starner:

faith. And this was one of the questions that I happen to be in

Matthew Starner:

the room for, was, you know, how does God answer our prayer? And

Matthew Starner:

I was so glad to hear that the kids answered this question

Matthew Starner:

boldly with your God can answer yes, he can answer no. And he

Matthew Starner:

can answer. I've got something better. And you know, those are

Matthew Starner:

the ways that God promises to, to answer our prayers. So often

Matthew Starner:

we think of I'm, I'm asking God for this. And the answer is for

Matthew Starner:

that to be granted. And so that's what it when when we say

Matthew Starner:

God answering my prayer, is he said, Yes, that's what we want.

Matthew Starner:

And as we reflect on God's word, as we chew on that, and listen

Matthew Starner:

to Him in prayer, that's not always going to be the answer.

Aidan Hunt:

Yeah. I also think God can also speak to us through

Aidan Hunt:

other people, through wise counsel through advice through

Aidan Hunt:

people who really just can discern the Word of God and know

Aidan Hunt:

you well, like there have been times where I've prayed for

Aidan Hunt:

something. And then a friend of mine, like the next day brought

Aidan Hunt:

up that same thing. Totally hadn't said a word to them about

Aidan Hunt:

it. And then talk to me. And I was like, Whoa, like, funny. I

Aidan Hunt:

was just praying about that yesterday. I don't think it's a

Aidan Hunt:

coincidence all the time. Sometimes, maybe, but not

Aidan Hunt:

always.

Matthew Starner:

Right. Yeah, that's those those good, solid

Matthew Starner:

Christian friends who can speak you know, God's Word into our

Matthew Starner:

life. Like, that's huge.

Aidan Hunt:

Yeah, I also think one of the really important

Aidan Hunt:

things and it brings us back to, you know, the word of God and

Aidan Hunt:

Scripture and why it's important to read it is because we're

Aidan Hunt:

familiar, or we familiarize ourselves with God's voice, so

Aidan Hunt:

that when we do hear a voice in our minds, and we think, is that

Aidan Hunt:

God's or is that another voice, if it doesn't sound like God, if

Aidan Hunt:

it doesn't sound like the God of the Bible, it's probably not his

Aidan Hunt:

voice. And that discernment becomes really important. And in

Aidan Hunt:

order to accurately do that, and want to do that faithfully, it

Aidan Hunt:

takes you know, the commitment to spend time with him and with

Aidan Hunt:

his word.

Matthew Starner:

Absolutely. Any any closing thoughts you want to

Matthew Starner:

leave, leave folks with here as we wrap up listening and prayer,

Matthew Starner:

any any encouragement or final advice,

Aidan Hunt:

I would say if you're listening to this take 10

Aidan Hunt:

minutes this week, a very short period of time, at least that

Aidan Hunt:

if, if not more, just to seek the voice of God in silence and

Aidan Hunt:

solitude. Open your prayer life not to just be a conversation or

Aidan Hunt:

a one way conversation where you speak to God, you give him your

Aidan Hunt:

divine wish list and then wait for him to answer yes or no or I

Aidan Hunt:

got something better. But listen, in that moment, like

Aidan Hunt:

say, God, I spoke to you, I'm ready for you to speak back. So

Aidan Hunt:

speak Your servant as listening and open yourself to whatever

Aidan Hunt:

might come in might be nothing, and might be a little thought in

Aidan Hunt:

your mind that pops up. Who knows how it could be. But I

Aidan Hunt:

would just challenge you this week. In your prayer life in

Aidan Hunt:

your time, 10 minutes is not very much you can spare 10

Aidan Hunt:

minutes to open yourself to what God might be saying to you in

Aidan Hunt:

the silence and in prayer and in time with him.

Matthew Starner:

Well, thanks, Aidan, always a pleasure to talk

Matthew Starner:

spiritual practices with you and this is a good one for people to

Matthew Starner:

listen to.

Matthew Starner:

Well, welcome back to another segment of in the word without

Matthew Starner:

commentaries and looking at the sermon on the mount here with

Matthew Starner:

Pastor Rob and Adam. And we've been we've been trekking along

Matthew Starner:

through Jesus teaching on the sermon on the mount here, and we

Matthew Starner:

come today to Matthew chapter six. Starting in verse five,

Matthew Starner:

where we're getting into prayer, where Jesus teaches about prayer

Matthew Starner:

first and then the Lord's Prayer specifically, so it's gonna be

Matthew Starner:

is gonna be a good one to talk about here. So why don't we Why

Matthew Starner:

don't we dive right in anatomy, you want to read through verse

Matthew Starner:

eight for us here, we'll talk a little bit about prayer.

Adam VanderStelt:

And when you pray, you must not be like the

Adam VanderStelt:

hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues

Adam VanderStelt:

and at the street corners that they may see be seen by others,

Adam VanderStelt:

truly I say to you, they have received their reward. But when

Adam VanderStelt:

you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your

Adam VanderStelt:

Father who was in secret. And your Father who sees in secret

Adam VanderStelt:

will reward you. And when you pray, do not heap up empty

Adam VanderStelt:

phrases as the Gentiles do. For they think that they will be

Adam VanderStelt:

heard for their many words. Do not be like them, for your

Adam VanderStelt:

Father knows what you need before you ask him. So some

Matthew Starner:

first just you know Jesus teaching about prayer

Matthew Starner:

in general, before he gets into the the actual teaching of the

Matthew Starner:

Lord's Prayer. So don't pray like the hypocrites. Don't

Matthew Starner:

always think of hypocrites associated with prayer. Think of

Matthew Starner:

it I don't know, I tend to think of hypocrites more in their

Matthew Starner:

their action or their behavior than than their prayer life. But

Matthew Starner:

don't make it sort of goes along with as we talked about in the

Matthew Starner:

last time, we were looking at the sermon on the mount here

Matthew Starner:

about, like the humility aspect of it. practicing your

Matthew Starner:

righteousness before but for God, he's the one who we care

Matthew Starner:

his reaction, we shouldn't care about what the world thinks

Matthew Starner:

about us. So it sounds like Jesus is maybe talking about

Matthew Starner:

some people who like to stand on the street corner and pray a

Matthew Starner:

little different than maybe today. The that

Rob Appold:

would be the Pharisee preachers understanding

Rob Appold:

that they are serving and they would have been revered they

Rob Appold:

would have been respected people that they're, you know, blessing

Rob Appold:

their community by praying publicly.

Matthew Starner:

So like the like the Street Preachers we

Matthew Starner:

might see today, downtown, they had street prayers back then

Rob Appold:

maybe, or any public prayer. Again, the the inner

Rob Appold:

motivation is what Jesus is talking about. What's what's

Rob Appold:

driving that prayer? To be seen by others. Okay. Yeah, that's

Rob Appold:

all you want to do. You did that you got seen? You didn't ask or

Rob Appold:

anything, but you got seen.

Matthew Starner:

Right? Yeah. So he's not saying here that we

Matthew Starner:

shouldn't ever pray in public. You know, if we're walking down

Matthew Starner:

the street, and we run into somebody who asks us for prayer,

Matthew Starner:

like we don't need to go, go hide or something now, so that

Matthew Starner:

we can pray for them like we can, we can take a moment we can

Matthew Starner:

pray for them right there on the spot. I often I don't I don't do

Matthew Starner:

a great job at this. But I try to if somebody asks me to pray

Matthew Starner:

for something, I try to do it then. Partly because I don't

Matthew Starner:

want to forget about it later. I don't want to say oh, I'll pray

Matthew Starner:

for that. And then never do. So like to even over the phone with

Matthew Starner:

somebody to pray with them in the moment. And I've, I've, I've

Matthew Starner:

had that happen before where somebody comes up and you're

Matthew Starner:

like, well, let's just let's just pray about this. Now we

Matthew Starner:

only make a big scene about it. We'll just talk to God and, and

Matthew Starner:

pray. But yeah, it's the what's the motivation behind that is it

Matthew Starner:

is it to be noticed, just like in the in the previous section,

Matthew Starner:

the last time we talked about this about, you know, is is

Matthew Starner:

giving, you know, doing your acts of righteousness or stuff

Matthew Starner:

is it to be noticed and to get the oohs and the ahhs from the

Matthew Starner:

crowd, or is it to actually, you know, pray for somebody? Is it

Matthew Starner:

to do what's what's actually needed here.

Rob Appold:

And these were the three biggies of piety of New

Rob Appold:

Testament almsgiving to the poor, praying and fasting do the

Rob Appold:

first two I'm not sure about the last one right in America.

Matthew Starner:

Is it a little bit of hyperbole on Jesus part

Matthew Starner:

here? And like verse six about you know, go to your room shut

Matthew Starner:

the door, you know, pray in the corner. You know, in secret is

Matthew Starner:

Jesus isn't isn't commanding us to necessarily seclude

Matthew Starner:

ourselves, right? I mean, we can pray more publicly.

Rob Appold:

Well in that would be in that Let your light so

Rob Appold:

shine before others to see your good works. Now, there's a

Rob Appold:

public aspect to that, but is that your reason for doing that

Rob Appold:

church to get acknowledgement

Matthew Starner:

that makes me think a little bit of the story

Matthew Starner:

of Daniel, in your praying in his room like in front of the

Matthew Starner:

window where everybody could see that he was praying to God not

Matthew Starner:

to the king You know, that was his witness there that then got

Matthew Starner:

him thrown in the lion's den. I love the next part too about the

Matthew Starner:

don't heap up empty phrases. Which you know there. I just saw

Matthew Starner:

a video, Oh, the other day on tick tock about somebody talking

Matthew Starner:

about different prayers and the one on one of the kind of the

Matthew Starner:

prayers that he talked about was trying to say Jesus name a whole

Matthew Starner:

bunch of times, or God's name a whole bunch of times in the

Matthew Starner:

prayer as if there's a tally, you know, that he's trying to

Matthew Starner:

keep or we're trying to get a score going. You certainly hear

Matthew Starner:

people pray that way. We're, Lord God, we pray that you would

Matthew Starner:

Lord God that you would get through this Lord God, and then

Matthew Starner:

it becomes a filler word. I think for some people, it's like

Matthew Starner:

the spiritual. Exactly, exactly. There you go. And so I do love

Matthew Starner:

to even for my own prayers, where like, when I'm leading

Matthew Starner:

prayer, in worship, to remind myself like, you know, sometimes

Matthew Starner:

being concise in a prayer is okay, it's like it doesn't have

Matthew Starner:

to be flowery and don't have to be a long prayer for it to be an

Matthew Starner:

effective prayer.

Adam VanderStelt:

Yeah, when we pray as a family and before

Adam VanderStelt:

dinner, as many families do, but I used to do it with all of my

Adam VanderStelt:

flower language, and then the kids are like, Dad, just let us

Adam VanderStelt:

pray. And so now my three year old son prays, he prays the same

Adam VanderStelt:

prayer every night. And it's straight from his heart. It's

Adam VanderStelt:

with all sincerity. He thinks God for Anna's house, the

Adam VanderStelt:

restaurant for for the baby in mom's belly and a baby and from

Adam VanderStelt:

down the street. And, and thank you for dinner. And sometimes he

Adam VanderStelt:

thinks, thanks God for his brother, but not as sometimes.

Matthew Starner:

Sometimes the brother, but

Adam VanderStelt:

it's so earnest, you know, and it's

Adam VanderStelt:

just, you know, for certain things, but they're straight

Adam VanderStelt:

from his heart. Yeah. So,

Rob Appold:

and that's what we can learn from the childlike

Rob Appold:

faith. And, and certainly Jesus held that up as well, too. But

Rob Appold:

yes, to be conscious of that, of what I'm saying in my prayer,

Rob Appold:

and am I just throwing things in there? You know, guilty.

Matthew Starner:

Oh, and I've been guilty of that, too.

Adam VanderStelt:

I learned I learned some good new

Adam VanderStelt:

theological content and see if I can get it in a in a public

Adam VanderStelt:

prayer, right to test it out. Let's see how that goes.

Matthew Starner:

Well, I can remember. So at the at the

Matthew Starner:

church that I grew up at, for a while, we had three pastors. And

Matthew Starner:

so you know, one, one would lead the liturgy at the first half of

Matthew Starner:

the service, one would preach and one would do the liturgy at

Matthew Starner:

the last, okay. And so the guy who followed the sermon, as he

Matthew Starner:

was like, setting up the offering, and the prayers would

Matthew Starner:

usually like preach a whole nother sermon and his prayer

Matthew Starner:

that like, I didn't get to preach today. So now I want to,

Matthew Starner:

I want to get my two cents in and it's like, yeah, but we

Matthew Starner:

don't, we don't need another, another sermon masquerading as a

Matthew Starner:

prayer.

Adam VanderStelt:

It must have been paid, paid per minute or so

Adam VanderStelt:

paid and paid by the word.

Rob Appold:

And most people aren't going to do that. Most

Rob Appold:

people listening probably wouldn't be that. Let your

Rob Appold:

prayers be genuine. Obviously, that's and do pray.

Matthew Starner:

So then Jesus gets into when we pray, pray

Matthew Starner:

like this. So Adam, your pickup at verse nine, and we're gonna

Matthew Starner:

read through the end of this section here at verse 15.

Adam VanderStelt:

Pray then like this, our Father in heaven,

Adam VanderStelt:

hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, Your will be done,

Adam VanderStelt:

on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread

Adam VanderStelt:

and forgive us our debts as we have also. And forgive us our

Adam VanderStelt:

debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not

Adam VanderStelt:

into temptation, but deliver us from evil, For if you forgive

Adam VanderStelt:

others, their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also

Adam VanderStelt:

forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their trespasses,

Adam VanderStelt:

neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Alright,

Matthew Starner:

so Jesus lays out for us what becomes known as

Matthew Starner:

the Lord's Prayer, what the church has held on to for the

Matthew Starner:

centuries, but what gets used in many churches on Sundays as they

Matthew Starner:

worship and you're kind of struck in here by some of the

Matthew Starner:

different language a little bit of the, the prayer from the text

Matthew Starner:

versus the prayer, how maybe we've we've learned it over the

Matthew Starner:

years. I know for me growing up. I do remember in the hymnal that

Matthew Starner:

we had growing up it had both versions of the prayer it had

Matthew Starner:

had give forgiveness, our deaths and it had forgive us our

Matthew Starner:

trespasses and we always use trespasses I've never I've never

Matthew Starner:

used deaths. I grew up praying debts you grew up playing debts.

Matthew Starner:

Yeah. And I've also seen some some other versions of it and

Matthew Starner:

you know, other criminals and things like that, that have just

Matthew Starner:

forgive us our sins as we forgive others who sinned

Matthew Starner:

against us. And I've always kind of wondered you know, what's

Matthew Starner:

what's really the best word there for us to pray? Oh, debt,

Matthew Starner:

sir. sins are trespasses, they each kind of get a different

Matthew Starner:

idea of the whole picture.

Rob Appold:

All the sins is Luke 11. I was just referencing that

Rob Appold:

as you were speaking. Oh, yeah. So so it's only the two places

Rob Appold:

that it's recorded in the Bible. So, yeah, that's how two

Rob Appold:

churches manage this Lord's Prayer. Right?

Matthew Starner:

And well, and everybody then tacks on

Matthew Starner:

something at the end, because, you know, it just ends with the

Matthew Starner:

way Jesus ended. It doesn't seem very, you know, final just

Matthew Starner:

deliver us from evil. So then we've got to add, you know, for

Matthew Starner:

nine is the kingdom and the glory forever and ever. I think

Matthew Starner:

some only some churches only just say, For thine is the

Matthew Starner:

kingdom and the glory in the power forever, period. We, we

Matthew Starner:

have to Lutherans, we have to tack on that forever and ever,

Matthew Starner:

you know, it's that, I don't know, it seems a little better

Matthew Starner:

that way, a little more lyrical. And there have been lots of

Matthew Starner:

different ways to approach the Lord's Prayer. Certainly, it is

Matthew Starner:

a good prayer to pray in these words. I've seen lots of other

Matthew Starner:

people kind of take it apart. In You know, it's addressing God,

Matthew Starner:

it's praying for God's will. It's praying for what we need,

Matthew Starner:

it's praying for our relationships, you know, like

Matthew Starner:

it's a, a format that we can kind of plug our own words into,

Matthew Starner:

if we want to do that. Much in the same way that there's like

Matthew Starner:

the X prayer, adoration, confession, thanksgiving,

Matthew Starner:

supplication kind of thing. It's a another framework that we can

Matthew Starner:

use. And I know a lot of lot of ink has been spilled on what

Matthew Starner:

each of these phrases, or each of these petitions means,

Matthew Starner:

certainly like the Catechism. Luther devoted some time to each

Matthew Starner:

of these. This was this was one of those core pieces, as Luther

Matthew Starner:

was compiling his catechism that he said, you know, this is, this

Matthew Starner:

is something that everybody needs to know. You know, in

Matthew Starner:

addition to the 10 commandments, the Creed, the sacraments, and I

Rob Appold:

think that's all valuable. But I think the the

Rob Appold:

reason here in Matthew six, is keep it simple. Keep it simple.

Rob Appold:

And I mean, what the only petition Jesus elaborates on is

Rob Appold:

the forgive. Yeah. And he lays it on pretty thick there.

Matthew Starner:

I've I've often thought about, like, when we

Matthew Starner:

pray this on Sunday mornings, do people understand those words

Matthew Starner:

about, you know, forgive us our debts, or forgive us our sins,

Matthew Starner:

as we've also forgiven our debtors? You know, it's, I know,

Matthew Starner:

at different times, I've thought about it and just for myself in

Matthew Starner:

terms of, like, forgive, forgive the people that I need to for

Matthew Starner:

forgive, forgive me, as I am right now forgiving those

Matthew Starner:

people, which is not really what it says here. I've kind of

Matthew Starner:

caught myself kind of falling into that, like, No, I'm really

Matthew Starner:

not. I'm saying forgive them in the same way that Forgive me in

Matthew Starner:

the same way that I have forgiven them. And so if I'm

Matthew Starner:

withholding forgiveness, if I haven't forgiven others like

Matthew Starner:

that, I'm saying to withhold that from me too. And that's,

Matthew Starner:

those are some serious words there. That is good stuff. I

Matthew Starner:

mean, I was good talking about prayer. And I was good to look

Matthew Starner:

at Jesus words about prayer. So Thanks for Thanks for Digging

Matthew Starner:

into God's Word this morning, here with us as we continue

Matthew Starner:

through the Sermon on the Mountain.

Matthew Starner:

Thanks for listening to everyday disciples, everyday disciples as

Matthew Starner:

part of the online ministry of St. Matthew Lutheran Church in

Matthew Starner:

Grand Rapids. We're striving to be followers of Jesus wherever

Matthew Starner:

we are, and we hope you'll join us on that journey. If you found

Matthew Starner:

this podcast helpful in your spiritual journey, we'd be

Matthew Starner:

honored if you would rate us and review us wherever you listen.

Matthew Starner:

It helps people find us and get the good news about Jesus out

Matthew Starner:

there to the world. If you've got questions or suggestions for

Matthew Starner:

things that you'd like to hear about on everyday disciples, let

Matthew Starner:

us know with an email to media at St. Matthew gr.com.