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We’re back! Our break ended up being a little longer than we planned (thanks to Covid, a major renovation project, and a pastoral search process that took priority) but we’re back with another season of Everyday Disciples!

In our first segment, we talk about colorful language – Christians and cussing. It seems like everyone does it. Does that make it okay? We’ll sit down with Lori Wieneke and explore what our language says about us.

Then, we sit down with Pastor Rob to talk about a question that was brought up by our senior high youth group: can Christians get tattoos? Cultural opinions go back and forth over them but what does God’s Word say?

As always, if you have a question or a topic you’d like to hear us talk about, reach out at media@stmatthewgr.com.

Transcript
Matthew Starner:

Welcome to Season Two of everyday

Matthew Starner:

disciples. It's taken us a minute, we had COVID sweep

Matthew Starner:

through a bunch of our team. We're in the middle of a

Matthew Starner:

renovation project here at church. We've got a ongoing

Matthew Starner:

pastoral search process that all kind of coincided to push back

Matthew Starner:

the start of season two. But we're back. And I'm Pastor

Matthew Starner:

Matthew Starner, the online pastor here at St. Matthew,

Matthew Starner:

thanks for joining us here on this journey. We're coming out

Matthew Starner:

the gate today with one that's going to challenge all of us

Matthew Starner:

Christians and cussing. Is it okay, everybody does it right.

Matthew Starner:

So what's the big deal with how we use our language? We'll sit

Matthew Starner:

down with Laurie wyniki. And dig into this, shall we say,

Matthew Starner:

colorful topic, then onto a colorful topic of a different

Matthew Starner:

kind, Christians and tattoos, this question was posed by some

Matthew Starner:

of our students, and we'll talk with Pastor Rob, about how

Matthew Starner:

Christians should approach inking their bodies. We got lots

Matthew Starner:

of great stuff ahead. Let's get going. Well, welcome back to

Matthew Starner:

another exciting segment of everyday disciples. I'm sitting

Matthew Starner:

down here with Laurie wyniki. Talking about what might be one

Matthew Starner:

of everybody's favorite sins. We had a little conversation or

Matthew Starner:

what was it a few weeks ago at staff about sins and how there

Matthew Starner:

are some that we tend to, we tend to ignore how bad they

Matthew Starner:

might be, and others that we really, you know, like to point

Matthew Starner:

the spotlight at those and language came up, man language

Matthew Starner:

expletives, swearing, cursing, cousin, whatever you want to

Matthew Starner:

call it, Christians and bad language. So, Laurie, you

Matthew Starner:

somehow got nominated as our

Lori Wieneke:

I don't know, the staff. What resident expert?

Lori Wieneke:

Yeah. What that says

Matthew Starner:

about our children's minister as part of

Matthew Starner:

this, but hey, we're glad that you're here with us. I'm always

Matthew Starner:

fun on the

Lori Wieneke:

planet. Definitely, Victor,

Matthew Starner:

that came up in staff, we thought it would be a

Matthew Starner:

good thing for us to talk about here on the everyday disciples

Matthew Starner:

podcast, because this is an everyday issue for disciples,

Matthew Starner:

for a lot of us. Language is something that we differ

Matthew Starner:

different people struggle with in different ways. And it's one

Matthew Starner:

of those things I think that can be a lot more accepted. Yeah,

Matthew Starner:

it's a little bit easier for people to just kind of shrug off

Matthew Starner:

using foul language than it is to, you know, maybe shrug off

Matthew Starner:

using pornography, or some of those other things.

Lori Wieneke:

You're kind of talking about that at staff. And

Lori Wieneke:

it was kind of convicting for me, because as Christians, I

Lori Wieneke:

think we know for rates the right word, but

Matthew Starner:

roll we didn't Yeah, we totally rank sin.

Lori Wieneke:

Yeah, we rank sins differently. And, unfortunately,

Lori Wieneke:

and this really has been convicting, even just talking

Lori Wieneke:

about it with staff. I mean, sometimes I use, not so God

Lori Wieneke:

pleasing words, I would think every staff member has heard

Lori Wieneke:

that hear at times. Sometimes it's not even out of anger, it

Lori Wieneke:

just over the years has slipped out of my mouth. And then I

Lori Wieneke:

started to really think about that and how Christians view

Lori Wieneke:

that almost as relatable or maybe that's not even a sin. I

Lori Wieneke:

have a good friend that bought me a cup that says I love Jesus,

Lori Wieneke:

and I cost a little. And I kind of thought to me, you know, she

Lori Wieneke:

wouldn't buy me that same cup that says, I love Jesus, and I

Lori Wieneke:

watched porn a little, or I love Jesus, and I murder a little

Lori Wieneke:

Sure. And so it started to think

Matthew Starner:

better. We got some we got some sermon series,

Matthew Starner:

we got to plan that if if those are that gap, that's becoming

Matthew Starner:

acceptable. But

Lori Wieneke:

but if I'm a Christian woman, children's

Lori Wieneke:

Minister of St. Matthew Lutheran Church, and unwholesome talk, it

Lori Wieneke:

comes out of my mouth. I feel like that's something I kind of

Lori Wieneke:

needed to work on and think about a little bit more. So

Lori Wieneke:

sure. I think that's why we're here today.

Matthew Starner:

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's something that I think

Matthew Starner:

everybody struggles with to some degree or another. I don't think

Matthew Starner:

there's anybody out there in the world, who doesn't have some

Matthew Starner:

sort of, you know, language that they find themselves using, you

Matthew Starner:

know, in different situations of anger, frustration, all those

Matthew Starner:

kinds of things that it just comes up.

Lori Wieneke:

Science even backs that Pastor Matt? Sure. I read

Lori Wieneke:

science, yes, science would say, cursing, doing a physic during a

Lori Wieneke:

physically painful event can actually help you tolerate pain.

Matthew Starner:

Mythbusters did that on an episode I remember

Matthew Starner:

where they, they had them put their arms in like this freezing

Matthew Starner:

cold water and had people swear, while they were doing it, and

Matthew Starner:

then had other people just like, say some nonsense word and the

Matthew Starner:

swear, the people who swore could actually keep their hands

Matthew Starner:

in their in that ice cold water longer, because they swore

Matthew Starner:

because they were swearing. Yeah. And actually a physical

Matthew Starner:

response in our bodies to that. Which, I guess is really

Matthew Starner:

interesting. If we start to think about that, theologically.

Matthew Starner:

What is that saying that there's a physical aspect to using

Matthew Starner:

language like that.

Lori Wieneke:

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. There was another

Lori Wieneke:

article that talked about you Using cuss words or swearing, or

Lori Wieneke:

however you wanted to find it today, actually helped to build

Lori Wieneke:

relationships. So it broke down the barriers and made people

Lori Wieneke:

feel more comfortable, which I don't think is the case among

Lori Wieneke:

every Christian because, you know,

Matthew Starner:

I do remember a pastor, kind of fairly famous

Matthew Starner:

pastor a number of years back, who made it a point that like he

Matthew Starner:

swore in his sermons to connect with people. And I remember a

Matthew Starner:

lot of people in the Christian communities really kind of

Matthew Starner:

wrestling with that saying, is that as a pastor, is that okay,

Matthew Starner:

especially as a pastor, while you're preaching exactly from

Matthew Starner:

the pulpit? Is that okay? Or what kind of a message is that

Matthew Starner:

sending? That might have even been around the time that I at

Matthew Starner:

my previous congregation led a Bible study on this, on

Matthew Starner:

swearing, revisiting some of my notes from way back then, which

Matthew Starner:

was kind of fun.

Lori Wieneke:

Because I feel like, you know, there's

Lori Wieneke:

Ephesians 429, right. And then there's also one of my kids was

Lori Wieneke:

trying to help me feel better. I don't know if that's actually

Lori Wieneke:

something I want to say on here. But hey, Mom, it's not really a

Lori Wieneke:

10 commandment, you're not doing anything wrong, you're fine. And

Lori Wieneke:

so I think that's kind of the thing that Christians kind of

Lori Wieneke:

look at. When we get

Matthew Starner:

too far into this, let's let's kind of start

Matthew Starner:

to define our terms a little bit about what what do we mean, when

Matthew Starner:

we're talking about this? And there, there is some kind of

Matthew Starner:

technical ways to break down the different the different ways

Matthew Starner:

that we can use language that is offensive. And so one of the

Matthew Starner:

ways is we talk about profanities, and profanities are

Matthew Starner:

words that are specifically profaning, the name of God. So

Matthew Starner:

it's, it's using his name, and appropriately, which that

Matthew Starner:

actually is a commandment. We have the commandment not to

Matthew Starner:

misuse the name of the restaurant. And I don't know

Matthew Starner:

that I well, I guess I I'm not sure in most people's minds, I

Matthew Starner:

think they probably just equate all bad language in the same

Matthew Starner:

group.

Lori Wieneke:

I would think so. Because when, and we'll talk

Lori Wieneke:

about in a second, but when I emailed you know, just various

Lori Wieneke:

parents and families. I mean, that's kind of I think, the

Lori Wieneke:

average person when they think of swearing, they would think of

Lori Wieneke:

obscene language or, you know, cuss words or whoever, right?

Lori Wieneke:

Yeah. So then I know you're breaking it down differently

Lori Wieneke:

today, a

Matthew Starner:

little like, just just to maybe help us think

Matthew Starner:

through like theologically, we say, so there's there is that

Matthew Starner:

that profane language that misuses God's name, or that

Matthew Starner:

refers to Holy, it's really hard to talk about this stuff without

Matthew Starner:

actually using these words. Yeah, we didn't want to have to

Matthew Starner:

bleep

Lori Wieneke:

Well, interesting. Some of the people said they had

Lori Wieneke:

no problem with like dropping an F bomb, but you better not say,

Lori Wieneke:

Oh, God, you know, so it's very interesting, like the respect or

Lori Wieneke:

maybe your reverence for your your Lord verse.

Matthew Starner:

So even they're there when they're recognizing

Matthew Starner:

the profane. Yeah, nature. Yeah. That is talking about something

Matthew Starner:

holy, that we got to be careful how we use that. Yeah. The other

Matthew Starner:

way, as you just mentioned, there obscenity is, is kind of

Matthew Starner:

another category of those bad words, which usually has to do

Matthew Starner:

with the body. We'll just maybe leave it at that. Yeah.

Matthew Starner:

bathrooms, or bedrooms, stuff we'll say, falls into those two

Matthew Starner:

kind of categories. And, of course, there are there are

Matthew Starner:

other things that that fall outside of those, you know,

Matthew Starner:

slurs and things like that, that we just kind of also know that

Matthew Starner:

those are bad things to say. But we're, I think, mostly talking

Matthew Starner:

about that whole, like, obscenity stuff. You're not

Matthew Starner:

Yeah, we recognize the commandment issue of we're not

Matthew Starner:

supposed to misuse God's name. But there isn't. Like, like your

Matthew Starner:

your son brought up there is I

Lori Wieneke:

said, family member. Now, you know which one?

Matthew Starner:

Well, you want to do one. So was it he's still

Matthew Starner:

just getting your there isn't a commandment specifically about

Matthew Starner:

that language?

Lori Wieneke:

Yes. I think when I was referring it to it'd be

Lori Wieneke:

the things that your kids would gasp bat, or somebody would

Lori Wieneke:

guess that if you if you said that word. Yeah, if I was

Lori Wieneke:

leaving jam, and use one of these words, this would be you

Lori Wieneke:

know, that's what I think we were focusing on are talking

Lori Wieneke:

about more. So

Matthew Starner:

yeah. You said just a moment ago, you had

Matthew Starner:

emailed some folks. Yeah. So we were talking about that, you

Matthew Starner:

know, some responses, telephone.

Lori Wieneke:

So I send emails almost every week to my

Lori Wieneke:

families. And this was the one I received the most responses to.

Lori Wieneke:

Definitely a hot topic. I think some people found it convicting.

Lori Wieneke:

I think some people wanted to defend either the use of

Lori Wieneke:

language or why you should never, never, not at our church,

Lori Wieneke:

not me. So it was really interesting. I actually loved

Lori Wieneke:

reading everyone's responses and actually responding to them and

Lori Wieneke:

having more dialogue about that as well. But yeah, there were

Lori Wieneke:

definitely different feelings on that topic. And one big thing

Lori Wieneke:

that came up would be intent. That kind of was the thing that

Lori Wieneke:

I think was coming across the board. You know, people what's

Lori Wieneke:

the intent so you might not Use poor language or words that we

Lori Wieneke:

would consider obscene or cuss words. And yet, you still say

Lori Wieneke:

horrible things about people, but it's just not swearing or

Lori Wieneke:

cussing. You know, what's the intent behind it, you do say a

Lori Wieneke:

bad word because you stubbed your toe or you have physical

Lori Wieneke:

pain, or somebody almost hit you with a car. Verse. This person

Lori Wieneke:

is a bloody bleep bleep bleep. Sure. And so there was a lot of

Lori Wieneke:

discussion around the intent, or you know, defaming people with

Lori Wieneke:

words, hurting people with words, instead of building them

Lori Wieneke:

up, which is what Jesus would tell us to do

Matthew Starner:

is actually go back to another commandment of

Matthew Starner:

like, you know, the bearing false witness against another

Matthew Starner:

person, which I know, in the Catechism that sort of gets

Matthew Starner:

expanded to be like, can we build up our neighbor and

Matthew Starner:

protect our neighbor? So you could I guess, make the argument

Matthew Starner:

that we're by using obscene language about our neighbor,

Matthew Starner:

we're certainly not helping them. Yes. We're certainly not

Matthew Starner:

loving them by doing that. Yeah,

Lori Wieneke:

that was one of the things that kept coming

Lori Wieneke:

back. Another kind of I think debate that we could talk about

Lori Wieneke:

today is kind of what I said before with the science. But do

Lori Wieneke:

you become more relatable to people in the community? So do

Lori Wieneke:

you because a couple people said, when they made conscious

Lori Wieneke:

dishes decisions to not swear, in fact, I even talked to a

Lori Wieneke:

youth person this weekend, she'll know who she is, if she's

Lori Wieneke:

listening, but she said she was called goody two shoes, a lot in

Lori Wieneke:

school, and different things like that as well. So her

Lori Wieneke:

conscious decision to not swear her conscious decisions, then

Lori Wieneke:

she was kind of lumped into this like super Christian Oh, we

Lori Wieneke:

better not tell the person this because she's a super Christian

Lori Wieneke:

kind of thing, where if you swear, if you drop an

Lori Wieneke:

occasional, you appear more cool, more relaxed, more

Lori Wieneke:

relatable. So that kind of came across. Now, some people felt

Lori Wieneke:

the exact opposite. you're a Christian, you should be

Lori Wieneke:

following God's commands, you should be set apart, right? They

Lori Wieneke:

should notice something different about you. And then in

Lori Wieneke:

turn, giving the glory to Jesus for that, but other people felt

Lori Wieneke:

no, no swearing, just kind of just kind of relaxed the mood

Lori Wieneke:

make people feel more comfortable. So

Matthew Starner:

sure. Yeah. It's, it was interesting reading

Matthew Starner:

because Lori shared the responses with me anonymously,

Matthew Starner:

of course. So if anybody, no worries, no worries, I got no

Matthew Starner:

names on these. But it was kind of interesting reading through

Matthew Starner:

there. Because there is a little bit of we all do this, right? We

Matthew Starner:

all kind of try to draw that line that walks right between

Matthew Starner:

what sin and what's okay. And you could see, some people

Matthew Starner:

really have that line of like, I can do it while I'm at home, or

Matthew Starner:

like kids can do it around the family. But like, if the

Matthew Starner:

grandparents are over, like can't do that, yeah, school, you

Matthew Starner:

can't do that there or whatever. Like,

Lori Wieneke:

it reminded me of so many events in our life where

Lori Wieneke:

that were the same exact way, you know, depending

Matthew Starner:

on this day, kind of thing, or blue shirt,

Matthew Starner:

it's the same, but otherwise, you know,

Lori Wieneke:

you drive through the no turn on red when no one's

Lori Wieneke:

looking. Or, you know, that's kind of one person it was. And I

Lori Wieneke:

mean, myself included, you know, don't see that here. You know,

Lori Wieneke:

so. Yeah, I thought that was kind of across the board too,

Lori Wieneke:

which really

Matthew Starner:

just points to our human tendency to just want

Matthew Starner:

to be okay with,

Lori Wieneke:

right. Yeah, well, in a lot with that came back to

Lori Wieneke:

numerous people talked about, it's so important. What you put

Lori Wieneke:

into what you listen to what you're watching on TV, you know,

Lori Wieneke:

good, the company that you're around, and when that becomes,

Lori Wieneke:

and I know, even our own children, the music, Netflix

Lori Wieneke:

shows, movies, I mean, TV shows which 20 years ago, never you

Lori Wieneke:

would couldn't hear. And now it's just commonplace language.

Lori Wieneke:

That's been a real struggle. Because when you're surrounded

Lori Wieneke:

by that, honestly, that's how I really started. And I love these

Lori Wieneke:

friends. But that's kind of how my mouth started to get worse.

Lori Wieneke:

About eight years ago, Gracie had soccer practices and a bunch

Lori Wieneke:

of moms. We just started running together. And a bunch of the

Lori Wieneke:

moms, I would say, use use some of these interesting words,

Lori Wieneke:

colorful link and me running for five miles with them. And every

Lori Wieneke:

practice that just kind of became part of my language, too.

Lori Wieneke:

And unfortunately, that became part of my language at home

Lori Wieneke:

sometimes. And then unfortunately, does that make

Lori Wieneke:

your children feel like that can be part of their language? And

Lori Wieneke:

then you have those discussions of No, you you can't say that.

Lori Wieneke:

And children call you out on that kind of stuff all the time,

Lori Wieneke:

which is convicting to Sure.

Matthew Starner:

Yeah, I mean, as you were, you know, rattling

Matthew Starner:

off all those things that that we surround ourselves with, you

Matthew Starner:

know, to think that that we are not affected in some way by that

Matthew Starner:

stuff. If that that that doesn't get into us or that we are

Matthew Starner:

somehow immune to the effects of that stuff is that's kidding

Matthew Starner:

ourselves. Know that that kind of stuff does work into our into

Matthew Starner:

our life in different ways. And

Lori Wieneke:

when you're surrounding yourself with the

Lori Wieneke:

secular things all the time and then not not diving into God's

Lori Wieneke:

word and what He commands. I think that's kind of where we

Lori Wieneke:

have those imbalances at times too.

Matthew Starner:

And that that's a great word that you just use

Matthew Starner:

that that imbalance because because I was already kind of

Matthew Starner:

trying to think ahead in this conversation of saying, so, you

Matthew Starner:

know, are we going to? Are we going to say that, so you

Matthew Starner:

shouldn't be watching any of those Netflix shows or you can't

Matthew Starner:

listen to any of that sort of music any Yellowstone's amazing?

Matthew Starner:

You know, I, I don't think we want to say that either. I think

Matthew Starner:

we can say like, like, like Paul would say, you know, everything

Matthew Starner:

is permissible, but not everything is beneficial. So,

Matthew Starner:

maybe it is that balance of like, okay, I can watch a show

Matthew Starner:

like Yellowstone that I haven't watched that one yet. But I hear

Matthew Starner:

that it's pretty rough. And you know, I could watch that. But

Matthew Starner:

maybe I also need to offset that with something else to balance

Matthew Starner:

that out in my life. Because otherwise, if I just have that

Matthew Starner:

coming in, I'm just filling myself up with all of that. That

Matthew Starner:

messy stuff.

Lori Wieneke:

Oh, yeah. And the messy stuff across the board,

Lori Wieneke:

from what we watch, and from what we hear, and then you don't

Lori Wieneke:

really realize how that really just does become a part. I mean,

Lori Wieneke:

language is just one aspect of that. And it's really hard to

Lori Wieneke:

find a show a movie with Clean Language. Oh, I mean, the days

Lori Wieneke:

of Little House on the Prairie and family ties and all the

Lori Wieneke:

shows, I'm dating myself that I grew up with, you know, the

Lori Wieneke:

shows the kids, even some of the parents had commented with me,

Lori Wieneke:

you know, even different shows that their kids watch even young

Lori Wieneke:

kids. You know, maybe it's not a swear word yet, but it's getting

Lori Wieneke:

to that point, or it's replacing, like fricking

Lori Wieneke:

fricking. So if their kid is saying freaking all the time, or

Lori Wieneke:

you suck, you suck at something that kids just say all the time,

Lori Wieneke:

which that's just snipe Hunter ng link. No, that's not. Why do

Lori Wieneke:

some words get a pass? I guess that's where my family's at,

Lori Wieneke:

like, why can't you say that word, but you can say this word,

Lori Wieneke:

you know, who determines that? Had it in I think even said what

Lori Wieneke:

you saw in Netflix special talking about what was

Matthew Starner:

special about that? Yeah, it was it was

Matthew Starner:

looking at cash have to remember the title of it. I think it was

Matthew Starner:

like how, like blank works. And it was all of these different

Matthew Starner:

things. And one of the episodes was on like how swearing works,

Matthew Starner:

which was really kind of interesting to watch, because it

Matthew Starner:

talked a little bit about the history of like the language and

Matthew Starner:

how words change and how things come and go in what's acceptable

Matthew Starner:

and not acceptable. And so, you know, very, very mild curse

Matthew Starner:

words today that are just kind of everywhere. You're

Matthew Starner:

everybody's grandma's using these words 100 years ago that

Matthew Starner:

would have made like people blush to say those words. And

Matthew Starner:

they there's the people on the show are looking ahead saying

Matthew Starner:

words that we think are really bad today, 100 years from now,

Matthew Starner:

or less the right we're going that's going to be everyday

Matthew Starner:

language. And yet, there will be other words that come to replace

Matthew Starner:

that because it's like, it's a human thing. We always have to

Matthew Starner:

have like, some some expletives out there that we can have in

Matthew Starner:

our back pocket when they when they lose their effectiveness.

Matthew Starner:

When they get worn down. We are replaced by something sharper.

Matthew Starner:

It's, yeah, there's there's probably a sermon in there

Matthew Starner:

somewhere.

Lori Wieneke:

I do see a sermon so.

Matthew Starner:

So I guess as we start to kind of wrap this up

Matthew Starner:

here. As everyday disciples wrestling with something as

Matthew Starner:

everyday as language, it's a part unless you're mute, like

Matthew Starner:

it's a part of all of our interactions. How do we use our

Matthew Starner:

language? How should we think about how we use our language, I

Matthew Starner:

guess as as we've reflected, as you've reflected, is because

Matthew Starner:

you've had these emails longer than than I got to look at them.

Matthew Starner:

You as you reflected on them, what are you pulling away as a

Matthew Starner:

disciple for how you want to approach language?

Lori Wieneke:

Well, it was convicting for me and we kind of

Lori Wieneke:

laughed I actually sent nine years ago on Facebook, a friend

Lori Wieneke:

shared a message hey, I need your it was a recommendation for

Lori Wieneke:

a job nine years ago yesterday, so God always has a fine for a

Lori Wieneke:

childcare position. I just shared it with her last night.

Lori Wieneke:

We were laughing and it said, and just don't tell them about

Lori Wieneke:

my swearing. You know, you're hot. So nine years ago, and not

Lori Wieneke:

a lot has changed. And so it was convicting for me of how I've

Lori Wieneke:

kind of just allow that it kind of crept into my life. You've

Lori Wieneke:

heard me say things don't worry, kids are safe here. I know my

Lori Wieneke:

situation in my audience. But that's not good either. You

Lori Wieneke:

know, and I really teach our kids characters what you are

Lori Wieneke:

when no one is watching and we we've tried to do that over and

Lori Wieneke:

over. And yet swearing like you said to myself included is one

Lori Wieneke:

of those things why know my situation. I know the audience.

Lori Wieneke:

I know the people I'm around, so it's okay then. So it was

Lori Wieneke:

convicting. And I think people that share their emails, a lot

Lori Wieneke:

of them said it was convicting for them too, because it slowly

Lori Wieneke:

did just kind of creep into their lives too. And I think we

Lori Wieneke:

can talk about hard things, struggles dumb things, even

Lori Wieneke:

anger and things without always using Bad words. Sometimes it

Lori Wieneke:

just I know somebody wrote this to you know, sometimes it just

Lori Wieneke:

he just needed it just adds that little extra room for, you know,

Lori Wieneke:

really what you say, Yeah, underlines the yes. But as a

Lori Wieneke:

Christ follower, a Kingdom Builder, you know we are set

Lori Wieneke:

apart and you know, it has been something I'm like I do need to

Lori Wieneke:

watch that because I think it creeps more and more and

Lori Wieneke:

becomes. And I would hate to be the reason I guess this is where

Lori Wieneke:

I'm kind of coming, you know, especially if people know you

Lori Wieneke:

work at a church, you love Jesus. I would hate to be the

Lori Wieneke:

reason someone would be turned off from from the church either

Lori Wieneke:

or that whole double edged sword of what we talked about with

Lori Wieneke:

Well, obviously I don't view that sin poorly. So then, where

Lori Wieneke:

do you draw the line? That's a really dangerous look. Well,

Lori Wieneke:

swearing is not bad. Okay, well, if swearing that bad cussing is

Lori Wieneke:

not bad, then you know, coveting, I mean, where do you

Lori Wieneke:

draw the line? And I guess that's where I've kind of

Lori Wieneke:

realized, I don't draw the line. I'm the same as you said, the

Lori Wieneke:

other people like I can defend why I do certain things. We all

Lori Wieneke:

do that. Right. Yeah. I mean, that's why there's Jesus. And

Lori Wieneke:

that's why there's forgiveness. And I one parent even laugh,

Lori Wieneke:

because I always tell the kids only Jesus is perfect. And

Lori Wieneke:

that's kind of how they, they said this to you. I swear,

Lori Wieneke:

sometimes, only Jesus is perfect. But because of Jesus, I

Lori Wieneke:

should want to change my ways. And it just, again, it was just

Lori Wieneke:

that one staff day acknowledging that this is probably an area

Lori Wieneke:

that I'm slipping the other way instead of slipping in a godly

Lori Wieneke:

way into watch that a little bit self control. Right, that's

Lori Wieneke:

fruit of the Spirit. That's probably the one that I lacked.

Lori Wieneke:

Probably the most, which you all know, anyway, you in the nose,

Lori Wieneke:

me, but self control, and that's kind of one of those, those

Lori Wieneke:

areas that so I'm expecting you and the other staff members to

Lori Wieneke:

hold me accountable to Oh, and a good way.

Matthew Starner:

Well, and I certainly just want to, I want

Matthew Starner:

to thank you for, for coming on here today to talk about this

Matthew Starner:

because I know it is a little bit vulnerable to talk about

Matthew Starner:

those, those parts of our life where we've suddenly recognized

Matthew Starner:

like, wow, I'm I do you know, I do fall into this, this pattern.

Matthew Starner:

Kind of recognizing like, wow, what, what does this mean? Thank

Matthew Starner:

thanks for wrestling with this with us. Well, I

Lori Wieneke:

appreciate the emails from people too, that did

Lori Wieneke:

say like, yeah, you shouldn't be doing this. And I mean, I did

Lori Wieneke:

ask parents for their parents and other people, their their

Lori Wieneke:

honest feedback. And I appreciate that both way the

Lori Wieneke:

people who tried to make me feel better. And the people who, who

Lori Wieneke:

challenged me of what, what does Jesus really want for you in

Lori Wieneke:

your life. And so I hope people won't look at me less. But it's

Lori Wieneke:

one of my areas.

Matthew Starner:

Yeah, as we as we kind of tie this up here,

Matthew Starner:

maybe just to sort of put a little bow on it, it's it, like

Matthew Starner:

you just said, nobody's perfect, only Jesus is perfect. And so we

Matthew Starner:

shouldn't beat ourselves up. If we find ourselves falling into

Matthew Starner:

that trap. That's also not an excuse to just to just stay

Matthew Starner:

there. So no one nobody but Jesus is perfect. So I could

Matthew Starner:

just be perfect. And that's okay. That's that's not a good

Matthew Starner:

spot to be either. So if that's where you are, you know, maybe

Matthew Starner:

maybe you do want to kind of reflect you know, come to church

Matthew Starner:

and confess great place to do that. Because we're all broken,

Matthew Starner:

we're all sinners and we're all in need of that forgiveness and

Matthew Starner:

and whether that is our pet sin in our life, we've all got them.

Matthew Starner:

We've all got those things that we keep going back to all the

Matthew Starner:

time. So the the everyday disciple takeaway from this, I

Matthew Starner:

guess, is to, to really think about the words that we use.

Lori Wieneke:

Once you put in your mind our heart ourselves,

Matthew Starner:

the Scripture Yeah. And and how we use that

Matthew Starner:

language. I love you tied in the the self control piece to that.

Matthew Starner:

You mentioned at the beginning, the Ephesians 429, about

Matthew Starner:

building one another up. Let no unwholesome talk come out of

Matthew Starner:

your mouth except for building others up. And I think those are

Matthew Starner:

great kind of guidelines to put in place as we go forward,

Matthew Starner:

knowing that we're gonna stub our toe and we're gonna swear

Matthew Starner:

we're gonna holler something that you know, might make a

Matthew Starner:

grandmother blush, but

Lori Wieneke:

not my grandma, which is part of the problem.

Lori Wieneke:

I'm

Matthew Starner:

just trying. Okay, well, we're going back to

Lori Wieneke:

the whole family thing to dive to skin.

Matthew Starner:

Thanks for Thanks for being on here has

Matthew Starner:

been been helpful to our listeners

Matthew Starner:

too. Well, I'm sitting down here now with Pastor Rob appaled. And

Matthew Starner:

we're here I bring a question that actually came up. I got to

Matthew Starner:

be helping out with the senior high youth group a few weeks

Matthew Starner:

back, and we did a little kind of q&a stuff. We'll get some

Matthew Starner:

good questions there. Right. And this was one of the questions

Matthew Starner:

that they asked so I wanted to bring this to the podcast and

Matthew Starner:

They asked are tattoos okay for Christians? And so just like

Matthew Starner:

right out the gate like, how would you respond to that

Matthew Starner:

question being posed to you by a senior high kid knowing that

Matthew Starner:

their their parents are probably listening? We need to be careful

Matthew Starner:

how we answer. Yeah. Or will tell the parents if they want

Matthew Starner:

to, you know, sway us one way or the other, just

Rob Appold:

parental response might be a whole different cat,

Rob Appold:

a whole different podcast, and permission and all that kind of

Rob Appold:

stuff. But actually, I did have that question come up in a new

Rob Appold:

member class with some folks that were joining. And, and on

Rob Appold:

the way out, they I don't even know how the conversation went

Rob Appold:

to this. But they said, well, and and we know what the

Rob Appold:

Christian church thinks of tattoos. thing I said, and I

Rob Appold:

thought to myself, I didn't know we had a Christian, right doctor

Rob Appold:

and on tattoos. So it did sparked me to do a little

Rob Appold:

research. I know there's a Bible verse, and I think you might

Rob Appold:

have it. Yeah, I pulled up.

Matthew Starner:

Leviticus 1928 says, You shall not make any

Matthew Starner:

cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves. I am the

Matthew Starner:

Lord.

Rob Appold:

Yeah. And obviously, the prohibition is for the dead.

Rob Appold:

And now, people have interpreted that in various ways. And

Rob Appold:

probably you've taken that as a general prohibition against a

Rob Appold:

tattoo. But as Christians, we would put the a tattoo in the

Rob Appold:

realm of Christian freedom, largely an intent thing. And now

Rob Appold:

there are others who would not, they would say that desecrating

Rob Appold:

what God has made as a, you know, it's not a natural thing.

Rob Appold:

It's an unnatural thing. But where do you go with that? I

Rob Appold:

mean, does that do you not cut your hair, some of interpret

Rob Appold:

that or as desecrating? You know, what the Lord has made

Rob Appold:

piercing ears, and all of those things, we would say fall within

Rob Appold:

the realm of Christian freedom. And you would, you know, you ask

Rob Appold:

about a teenager doing it out of maybe rebellion, or without

Rob Appold:

their parent parental approval, I wouldn't recommend that just

Rob Appold:

for the sake of family peace. But personally, I was a younger

Rob Appold:

guy, I think I would probably get a tattoo. Now.

Matthew Starner:

You know, if needles didn't bother me so

Matthew Starner:

much. It's crossed my mind a number of times. And even, you

Matthew Starner:

know, recently, it's sort of crossed my mind of getting a

Matthew Starner:

tattoo and I still don't have any yet. But one of the other

Matthew Starner:

places that I pointed the kids to, as we were talking about

Matthew Starner:

this with the youth group, I jumped back to Genesis four. And

Matthew Starner:

okay, and oh, Cain and Abel, and God puts a mark on Cain. Okay,

Matthew Starner:

we're not told what that mark is, but some sort of a, a sign

Matthew Starner:

that God puts on cane that will, you know, in essence, protect

Matthew Starner:

him. Yeah. So,

Rob Appold:

it's very important to note that that's for mercy,

Rob Appold:

not for punishment, right? Yeah,

Matthew Starner:

yep. And we're not told what that mark is, it

Matthew Starner:

could have been a tattoo or some sort of a sign. So you know,

Matthew Starner:

here we have God, giving one of those giving a mark that is put

Matthew Starner:

on him. So that that's maybe one way to think about, okay, so

Matthew Starner:

God, God is using this tool here. One of the other verses,

Matthew Starner:

though, that I think often comes up in this discussion, that

Matthew Starner:

Adam, as we were getting ready to record here mentioned was

Matthew Starner:

first Corinthians 619. About You know, knowing that your body is

Matthew Starner:

a temple, you have the Holy Spirit, within you whom you

Matthew Starner:

have, you're not your own, you're bought with a price. So

Matthew Starner:

glorify God in your body, which is really interesting, because

Matthew Starner:

I'm, I know like, growing up this I heard this verse get

Matthew Starner:

kicked around with in regard to like tattoos and and so you've

Matthew Starner:

got your Christian saying, You're the temple. Now, if

Matthew Starner:

you've ever been to like a big cathedral, they've got all these

Matthew Starner:

ornate, stained glass and you know, they are not playing at

Matthew Starner:

all. There's a lot of color and artwork and things like that.

Matthew Starner:

And so it's sort of, could couldn't can we use tattoos to

Matthew Starner:

glorify God?

Rob Appold:

Well, that was kind of where I was going, because,

Rob Appold:

or in my mind, I was going, I've seen people, obviously, at

Rob Appold:

restaurants, you often see a waitress or waiter have a

Rob Appold:

tattoo, and it's given me it's obviously important to them what

Rob Appold:

they engrave on themselves. And it's given me the chance to have

Rob Appold:

a short dialogue with a person. But absolutely, this is an

Rob Appold:

important thing to me. I know people that put, you know, a

Rob Appold:

Bible verse or a word that may be a word in Hebrew or a cry.

Rob Appold:

So, again, yes, I think, again, within that realm of Christian

Rob Appold:

freedom. Sure, you can,

Matthew Starner:

like our like our language, we can glorify God

Matthew Starner:

with it, or we can go against God with it. Yeah, it's, I

Matthew Starner:

think, kind of a similar sort of thing. You mentioned you know,

Matthew Starner:

some of the things that people tattoo on themselves are our

Matthew Starner:

scripture or religious type things. Some things I think are

Matthew Starner:

just what things that we like that are meaningful to us

Matthew Starner:

wherever they are. That there is like I have seen people who do

Matthew Starner:

tattoos like in memory of someone. Oh, yeah. So how does

Matthew Starner:

that I've never really thought of this until this moment. How

Matthew Starner:

does that connect to that tattooing yourself for the dead?

Matthew Starner:

Is that oh, look, what is the Vegas talking about there?

Rob Appold:

Oh, well, the Leviticus prohibition would be

Rob Appold:

for seeking the dead and seeking their you know, power from below

Rob Appold:

worshiping the dead or trying like trying to get the chain the

Rob Appold:

future or channel them? Yes. I mean, the classic back when I

Rob Appold:

was a child, if a guy had a tattoo, it was he was a sailor

Rob Appold:

who went on a bender one night, got a tattoo for mom, you know,

Rob Appold:

bicep, the anchor with Mama. Yeah. Or cartoon, you know. So,

Rob Appold:

and again. I mean, we do that with a headstone on a grave. Why

Rob Appold:

do we do that? Or we do we want to remember our loved ones. And,

Rob Appold:

again, I'm not trying to advocate people getting a

Rob Appold:

tattoo, but I don't think anyone need one needs to say, This is

Rob Appold:

against God's will or desecrating the name of the

Rob Appold:

Lord. It can be done out of that motivation. But I, I think,

Rob Appold:

again, it's within the realm of Christian freedom.

Matthew Starner:

Yeah, I think this is this is, you know, one

Matthew Starner:

of those kind of cultural topics that certainly culture ebbs and

Matthew Starner:

flows on this. Yeah, there were, there was a time period when

Matthew Starner:

tattoos were you know, it was really looked down on now. I

Matthew Starner:

think tattoos are much more mainstream, much more common.

Matthew Starner:

Gosh, I know, not just little ones. I mean, right? Well, and I

Matthew Starner:

know, like grandmothers who are going out and getting tattoos

Matthew Starner:

for their 60th birthday, or whatever, like, you know,

Matthew Starner:

that's, that's a thing now, that maybe 4050 years ago that

Matthew Starner:

wasn't. So yeah, culture moves on those things. And so it

Matthew Starner:

causes us as Christians as disciples to say, okay, so does

Matthew Starner:

it change how we think about it? Or, or not? So yeah, thanks for

Matthew Starner:

this conversation. Yeah, this is good question. Thanks for

Matthew Starner:

listening to everyday disciples. Everyday disciples is part of

Matthew Starner:

the online ministry of St. Matthew Lutheran Church in Grand

Matthew Starner:

Rapids. We're striving to be followers of Jesus wherever we

Matthew Starner:

are, and we hope you'll join us on that journey. If you found

Matthew Starner:

this podcast helpful in your spiritual journey, we'd be

Matthew Starner:

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Matthew Starner:

It helps people find us and get the good news about Jesus out

Matthew Starner:

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Matthew Starner:

things that you'd like to hear about on everyday disciples, let

Matthew Starner:

us know with an email to media at St. Matthew gr.com.